Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable

[chiller]

What took them so long?

 

[Krugerrand]

The climate of the planet is bad enough already, not willing to gamble it further. Would rather overcorrect.

I also get annoyed by the analogies of debt and deficit with companies profits and peoples home finances. Governments aren't supposed to be profitable. Business often start off with years of losses (ahem Tesla). People have massive debts even people with good net worth. My wife and I have a deficit of about $1.5 million in 2021 and our debt went up to $2M, yet somehow our Net Worth increased by $3 million. How could that be?

I don’t want to gamble with the planet either, but I’d rather be efficient with all the resources. Government is NOT efficient about anything.

Can’t speak to your debt/net worth issue; my spouse and I have always made decisions and choices that yielded the least amount of debt because we’re both wired in the spirit of the olden days where you didn’t buy something unless you had cold, hard cash. And if you did borrow, you bent over backwards to pay it back asap. Therefore we find ourselves with a minuscule amount of debt for which I’m just being obstinate about paying off for personal reasons, which are stupid but on principle, well, they can suck a lollipop. I’ll pay when I’m good and ready.

 

[goinfraftw]

The climate of the planet is bad enough already, not willing to gamble it further. Would rather overcorrect.

I also get annoyed by the analogies of debt and deficit with companies profits and peoples home finances. Governments aren't supposed to be profitable. Business often start off with years of losses (ahem Tesla). People have massive debts even people with good net worth. My wife and I have a deficit of about $1.5 million in 2021 and our debt went up to $2M, yet somehow our Net Worth increased by $3 million. How could that be?

thx1139, people aren't companies. Neither are governments. Most conflate both in order to simplify or go along with ignorance in their views on how things work or ought to be, IMO.

You're right in that governments aren't supposed to be profitable, but they ought to be efficient. That is, what the government chooses not to do as a utility to the public gets moved over to companies that have a defined goal of solving problems and creative innovation in sectors via products and services. Various (public and private) markets of investment are built in order to propel those solutions too.

 

[thx1139]

I don’t want to gamble with the planet either, but I’d rather be efficient with all the resources. Government is NOT efficient about anything.

Can’t speak to your debt/net worth issue; my spouse and I have always made decisions and choices that yielded the least amount of debt because we’re both wired in the spirit of the olden days where you didn’t buy something unless you had cold, hard cash. And if you did borrow, you bent over backwards to pay it back asap. Therefore we find ourselves with a minuscule amount of debt for which I’m just being obstinate about paying off for personal reasons, which are stupid but on principle, well, they can suck a lollipop. I’ll pay when I’m good and ready.

I disagree Medicare is far more efficient then Health Insurance. Like 97% of the funds go to healthcare where we had to codify into law that 75% of health insurance premiums had to go into healthcare.

We dont have debt issues. I was showing that judging financial health based on deficit (spending more in a year then you take in) and debt is not a wise choice. Net Worth is a far better judge of financial health. Our Net Worth is about $14M while our debt is $2M. Debt is a tool that can be wisely used. Taking out a loan to fix a hole in your roof is a wise choice. Just like Government taking out debt to combat climate change is a wise choice. The alternative is far more expensive. We both also came from lower middle class families that abhorred debt. We were more educated and realized debt is a tool that can be used wisely.

 

[MP3Mike]

I haven't really seen this mentioned but Tesla already announced the date for Q4 earnings. Jan 29th.

Have they ever announced earnings this early before and before the quarter even ended? Combined with Elon saying there will be product roadmap updates on the Q4 earnings call, should we be expecting some material announcements on that earnings call?

Where have they released the date? I don't see anything on their investor relations page. (Are you sure you aren't just seeing an estimated release date that Yahoo or some other company has guessed at?)

 

[generalenthu]

I haven't really seen this mentioned but Tesla already announced the date for Q4 earnings. Jan 29th.

Have they ever announced earnings this early before and before the quarter even ended? Combined with Elon saying there will be product roadmap updates on the Q4 earnings call, should we be expecting some material announcements on that earnings call?

Where do you see it? I don't see it here

 

[Wicket]

Taking out a loan to fix a whole in your roof is a wise choice.

Perhaps you meant whale?

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

Where have they released the date? I don't see anything on their investor relations page. (Are you sure you aren't just seeing an estimated release date hat Yahoo or some other company has guessed at?)

My bad....deleting my post and everyone ignore.

People on twitter are actually resorting to mocking up fake images of investor relations pages. Dear lord what a waste of a platform

 

[ggies07]

I think that we will see a 35K Model 3, that probably needs front and rear castings, a structural battery pack and an LFP battery.

So 2017 was a joke then, right? A publicity stunt so it didn't look like Elon was lying out of his ass for years talking about the 35k model before then, eh? I'm really confused how all of a sudden it's "too expensive" to build it. So what was it then?

 

[thx1139]

thx1139, people aren't companies. Neither are governments. Most conflate both in order to simplify or go along with ignorance in their views on how things work or ought to be, IMO.

You're right in that governments aren't supposed to be profitable, but they ought to be efficient. That is, what the government chooses not to do as a utility to the public gets moved over to companies that have a defined goal of solving problems and creative innovation in sectors via products and services. Various (public and private) markets of investment are built in order to propel those solutions too.

And I am all for doing things the most efficient manner possible. Sometimes that is government, sometimes that is business and sometimes that is personnel. Government over and over again has shown to be used in efficient manner to influence direction. Does it get it wrong sometimes? Yes. Fisker and Tesla got loans from government for electric cars and 1 of them failed and 1 of them succeeded. Would Tesla had succeeded without the loan? Dont know. Yes Tesla paid it back, but had Tesla failed then it wouldnt have been paid back.

 

[thx1139]

So 2017 was a joke then, right? A publicity stunt so it didn't look like Elon was lying out of his ass for years talking about the 35k model before then, eh? I'm really confused how all of a sudden it's "too expensive" to build it. So what was then?

Its not. Just not a wise choice right now. Why build a low margin car when you can sell a high margin car just as easily and with minimal extra time or expense. In the future that $35K car will be needed as will the $25K car. Think is in the future the margin will be higher and the production capacity will be ready to make the lower margin cars as well as the higher margin cars.

 

[Boomer19]

Where do you see it? I don't see it here

if @StarFoxisDown! is getting this from twitter, perhaps they saw it on the “whole mars” handle. apparently it’s a joke



it’s not on Teslas IR - and it’s a saturday, so

——
some of the elon cheerleading squad may actually be detrimental to the larger picture. maybe not as bad as tslaq —-but hey, fate loves irony

 

[goinfraftw]

And I am all for doing things the most efficient manner possible. Sometimes that is government, sometimes that is business and sometimes that is personnel. Government over and over again has shown to be used in efficient manner to influence direction. Does it get it wrong sometimes? Yes. Fisker and Tesla got loans from government for electric cars and 1 of them failed and 1 of them succeeded. Would Tesla had succeeded without the loan? Dont know. Yes Tesla paid it back, but had Tesla failed then it wouldnt have been paid back.

That sounds like that's a problem of implementation, not design. Though, happy to consider how it might be the former if you have thoughts there.

 

[ggies07]

Why build a low margin car when you can sell a high margin car just as easily and with minimal extra time or expense. In the future that $35K car will be needed as will the $25K car.

well, a lot you guys on here and out in the world don't need a new Tesla every 3 years. The lower middle class with multiple kids and bills are the ones that need to get off gas, not us. So lower margins for a quicker transition. I hope once these two new factories are up to speed in a year/2 years, Elon will make the right decision and lower the prices back down or even farther.

 

[thx1139]

Perhaps you meant whale?

Nope meant hole. See the Wisdom tooth I had pulled an hour ago is already hurting my wisdom.

 

[StarFoxisDown!]

if @StarFoxisDown! is getting this from twitter, perhaps they saw it on the “whole mars” handle. apparently it’s a joke
View attachment 741748


it’s not on Teslas IR - and it’s a saturday, so

——
some of the elon cheerleading squad may actually be detrimental to the larger picture. maybe not as bad as tslaq —-but hey, fate loves irony

Yup......I get having a sense of humor but 99.99% of Twitter humor is in bad taste. And yes, a number of the Tesla bull twitter accounts are not only detrimental to how someone would view Tesla or Elon as a company, but they clearly use Tesla the company has a platform to gain popularity.

 

[thx1139]

well, a lot you guys on here and out in the world don't need a new Tesla every 3 years. The lower middle class with multiple kids and bills are the ones that need to get off gas, not us. So lower margins for a quicker transition. I hope once these two new factories are up to speed in a year/2 years, Elon will make the right decision and lower the prices back down or even father.

Lower margins for a quicker transition only works if that means you can build more cars. Higher margins now means more money to build out more factories or expand factories faster to ramp production capacity higher and faster. I think the market will push the prices back down. Lower prices now would just cause more people to order cars to immediately sell at a profit to people who cant wait for a car.

 

[bkp_duke]

I disagree Medicare is far more efficient then Health Insurance. Like 97% of the funds go to healthcare where we had to codify into law that 75% of health insurance premiums had to go into healthcare.

We dont have debt issues. I was showing that judging financial health based on deficit (spending more in a year then you take in) and debt is not a wise choice. Net Worth is a far better judge of financial health. Our Net Worth is about $14M while our debt is $2M. Debt is a tool that can be wisely used. Taking out a loan to fix a whole in your roof is a wise choice. Just like Government taking out debt to combat climate change is a wise choice. The alternative is far more expensive. We both also came from lower middle class families that abhorred debt. We were more educated and realized debt is a tool that can be used wisely.

HA HA HA HA HA

PLEASE don't clutter this thread with healthcare-related postings. As a physician, I could give you horror stories of both Medicare and private insurance. It's not which is better than the other, it's which is the LEAST bad. I personally have seen wastage of hundreds of thousands of dollars on patients by BOTH. And both are insanely inefficient at capital allocation.

Just like Elon said yesterday, the Gov should not be involved in picking winners and losers (paraphrasing), they should just ensure a fair and COMPETITIVE market. Healthcare has ZERO market forces (because prices are not transparent - each player has their own little monopoly - including Uncle SAM). That's the underlying reason why it's so expensive here in the states.

Beyond this, we should move any discussion about gov out of this thread, because:
1) the mods hate it
2) it's getting pretty far off-topic

 

[Ogre]

So 2017 was a joke then, right? A publicity stunt so it didn't look like Elon was lying out of his ass for years talking about the 35k model before then, eh? I'm really confused how all of a sudden it's "too expensive" to build it. So what was it then?

It was simple.

Tesla underestimated how quickly demand for EVs would take off.

If you can’t keep up with demand at $45k, what is the point in having a $35k car?

Cheaper cars will come when their production exceeds the demand for $45,000 Model 3s.

 

[RobDickinson]

I think Tesla assumed competition would come. That they have been surprised by the lack of competition coupled with an 'awakening' for EVs, their 50-70% yoy growth isnt seemingly enough