Tesla Model 3 Acceleration Software Limited? [model 3P]

[Knightshade]

To be honest I don't think Tesla has much interest in competing with tuner crowd cars.

Teslas performance appeal to my mind is this:

You get into the factory, warrantied, car, and it's incredibly quick, every single time, with no effort needed, no modding needed, and it just goes.

I've been the guy boring and stroking and tuning engines with lopey cams on American muscle cars to double the from-the-factory power.... which was great until you blew up whatever the current weakest part was each time and then replaced it with an upgrade and waiting to find the NEXT weakest part.... and it'd PROBABLY start in the morning, usually... and if you didn't mind burning through drag radials in street use you could even put MOST of that power down at launch, with dry roads I guess...

I've also been the guy dealing with head gasket issues on a modded turbo supra, seeing how much boost we could handle... there at least it started more reliably in the morning

And I've also lined up that American muscle car against a 4 cylinder 400hp+ turbo car that didn't come with nearly that much stock... and laughed my ass off when he snapped his axle trying to beat me at the launch.


The tesla experience is vastly better. It just starts and goes. Stock. Every time.

Certainly there'll remain a mod/tinker crowd that disagrees... this isn't the brand for them, and I've seen no suggestion it wants to be.

 

[MasterC17]

To be honest I don't think Tesla has much interest in competing with tuner crowd cars.

Teslas performance appeal to my mind is this:

You get into the factory, warrantied, car, and it's incredibly quick, every single time, with no effort needed, no modding needed, and it just goes.

I've been the guy boring and stroking and tuning engines with lopey cams on American muscle cars to double the from-the-factory power.... which was great until you blew up whatever the current weakest part was each time and then replaced it with an upgrade and waiting to find the NEXT weakest part.... and it'd PROBABLY start in the morning, usually... and if you didn't mind burning through drag radials in street use you could even put MOST of that power down at launch, with dry roads I guess...

I've also been the guy dealing with head gasket issues on a modded turbo supra, seeing how much boost we could handle... there at least it started more reliably in the morning

And I've also lined up that American muscle car against a 4 cylinder 400hp+ turbo car that didn't come with nearly that much stock... and laughed my ass off when he snapped his axle trying to beat me at the launch.


The tesla experience is vastly better. It just starts and goes. Stock. Every time.

Certainly there'll remain a mod/tinker crowd that disagrees... this isn't the brand for them, and I've seen no suggestion it wants to be.

Oh I agree with you there - the Model 3 "Track Package" was a joke. Wheels, tires, and brake pads - oh my! And such a low price (lol).

Oh well, at least Mountain Pass exists to quench my desire for modifications.

However, the one thing I will contradict you on is this - the M3P loses power as SOC drops pretty significantly. The Plaid does but to a much lesser degree. It's one of my main gripes with the M3P, the only more annoying issue being that current gets limited pretty quickly on track.

However, for 99% of people those probably aren't concerns, so this is just me complaining.

 

[raptor5244]

Certainly there'll remain a mod/tinker crowd that disagrees... this isn't the brand for them, and I've seen no suggestion it wants to be.

So far, it looks like Dodge will be the brand for this. They will probably offer upgrade packages, software unlocks, etc. to try and keep that customer base entertained.

 

[raptor5244]

However, the one thing I will contradict you on is this - the M3P loses power as SOC drops pretty significantly. The Plaid does but to a much lesser degree. It's one of my main gripes with the M3P, the only more annoying issue being that current gets limited pretty quickly on track.

However, for 99% of people those probably aren't concerns, so this is just me complaining.

Agreed, and the best practice is that you are supposed to limit charging to 90% therefore you only live in the peak power range for a short window. The last I read was a 64hp delta between 75% SOC and 45% SOC, which is considerable. Knowing what I know now, I would not have gone for the 3P. I would have stopped at the LR AWD. In fact, if they still had an LR RWD I would have picked that trim since I prefer the way it handles better. It has a mid-engine kind of feel to it and changes directions noticeably better than my 3P did.

 

[raptor5244]

Teslas performance appeal to my mind is this:

You get into the factory, warrantied, car, and it's incredibly quick, every single time, with no effort needed, no modding needed, and it just goes.

The tesla experience is vastly better. It just starts and goes. Stock. Every time.

Certainly there'll remain a mod/tinker crowd that disagrees... this isn't the brand for them, and I've seen no suggestion it wants to be.

I agree with you but to be fair you can also purchased factory supercharged/turbocharged Corvettes, Camaros, Challengers, Mustangs, BMWs, Audi, etc. with incredible performance and full factory warranty. No modding required.

The real question is how much of that experience is attributed to the EV powertrain? Now consider if in a few years all the manufactures will have a similar driving experience, potentially with better interiors with improved materials, fit and finish, handling, etc. I was thinking about trading the M3 SR+ for a Model Y but this Cadillac is looking pretty nice at the same price point.

 

[Knightshade]

I agree with you but to be fair you can also purchased factory supercharged/turbocharged Corvettes, Camaros, Challengers, Mustangs, BMWs, Audi, etc. with incredible performance and full factory warranty. No modding required.

Sure.

Virtually none of them match the 3 performance in the metric originally raised however, and most of the few that do cost 50-500% more... with only the C8 in a largely different form factor (and maybe the RS3, TBD once a good source arises) coming close to comparable price for that level of performance.


And Sam1 made it clear in his tap dancing be less hilariously wrong that HE totally counts cars people bolted tons of NOZ!!! and sawzalled off the bumpers of to make faster as "comparable"

The real question is how much of that experience is attributed to the EV powertrain?

Nearly all of it as far as the no hassle, instant power, no downshifting ever part of it.

Now consider if in a few years all the manufactures will have a similar driving experience

As a famous Spartan once noted.... If.

I was thinking about trading the M3 SR+ for a Model Y but this Cadillac is looking pretty nice at the same price point.

Spec wise that's RWD and power level roughly similar to the AWD non-P Y...so both rather slower than what we've been discussing...

(Also knowing Caddy I'll be shocked if you don't see a significantly higher price once you option the thing the way you'd really want it, but YMMV)


AFAIK the "performance" AWD Lyric isn't coming till 2023 with unknown specs and price right now.

 

[raptor5244]

Sure.

Virtually none of them match the 3 performance in the metric originally raised however, and most of the few that do cost 50-500% more... with only the C8 in a largely different form factor (and maybe the RS3, TBD once a good source arises) coming close to comparable price for that level of performance.

Here are some that are pretty close on the 0-60mph but just lack the traction to put down a quicker time. These vehicles are in the price range though. Some have 4 seats, some don't, some have AWD some don't.

Camaro ZL1 - 3.3 sec, 1/4 mi 11.4 sec
Hellcat Charger - 3.9 sec, 1/4mi 11.6 sec
Hellcat Challenger - 3.9 sec, 1/4mi 11.4 sec
Ford GT 500 - 3.5 sec, 1/4mi 10.7 sec
Corvette C7 Z06 - 2.95 sec, 1/4mi 10.95 sec
BMW M4 - 3.8 sec, 1/4mi 12.0 sec
Audi RS3 - 3.4 sec, 1/4mi 11.8 sec

Here is the Audi RS7 - more money (twice the price) though, C&D posted a 3.0 sec 0-60mph.

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[Sam1]

And none of those lose 20% power while they have 1/4 tank of gas, unlike the model 3. Spend $1000 and slap a pulley, tune, and tires on that z06 and you'll be in 10.5's/130's all day long. Same with the hellcats, except all you need are radials at the track to turn 10's and 3 flat 0-60's.

 

[Knightshade]

Here are some that are pretty close on the 0-60mph but just lack the traction to put down a quicker time.

If we're allowed to count "pretty close" then the Model 3 AWD+ counts too, and drops the price significantly further down.

Hell, even the non + is just as quick 0-60 as 2 on your list, and 0.1 slower than another.

And notice how even then nearly everything on your list is from just a few manufacturers.... not "most"?

Yet there's Sam1 again trying to defend his ridiculously inaccurate claim.

 

[ArchEtech]

Camaro ZL1 - 3.3 sec, 1/4 mi 11.4 sec

Maybe on drag radials in perfect conditions you can get a 3.3. At highway speeds they pull a M3P pretty well. Not a a sedan though, it’s a stiff riding track car. I wish Tesla would use magnetic ride though. Price wise these are $64,000 minimum but usually closer to $70,000.

Hellcat Charger - 3.9 sec, 1/4mi 11.6 sec

They can do much better than 3.9 and will destroy a M3P on a roll. For everyday street driving they don’t hook up great. Awesome cars. This is defiantly a sedan! They start at $73,000 that’s not an insignificant cost over a Tesla.


Hellcat Challenger - 3.9 sec, 1/4mi 11.4 sec

Same as above.

Ford GT 500 - 3.5 sec, 1/4mi 10.7 sec

The new one is what $80,000? $90,000+ full trim? It’s not a sedan.

Corvette C7 Z06 - 2.95 sec, 1/4mi 10.95 sec

Used maybe you can find one for $70,000. Not a sedan.

BMW M4 - 3.8 sec, 1/4mi 12.0 sec

Fair comparison on performance, these are almost $100,000 now with all options and AWD. $80,000 minimum trim.

Audi RS3 - 3.4 sec, 1/4mi 11.8 sec

Pretty fair comparison on price and performance. I think these are kind of small for a sedan. The new ones are bad ass looking. The in-line 5 banger is awesome. Price loaded will be a little more than the M3P. I looked as theses. I just wanted to try an EV. Don’t regret it and my last car was an R35.

Here is the Audi RS7 - more money (twice the price) though, C&D posted a 3.0 sec 0-60mph.

$150,000 super sedan. This proves the point that the M3P is a bargain. I drove a 2014 RS7 for a couple years. Very fun car. You could find a used one, 6-7 years old with 50k miles for the price of a M3P.

 

[T3SLAROD]

So what's the consensus? Tesla will improve software to make the M3P more linear with a better top end or is the LR still the better buy?

At least the M3P doesn't fall flat on it's face after 5 seconds like another EV that supposed to be a Performance version......

 

[Sam1]

At least the M3P doesn't fall flat on it's face after 5 seconds like another EV that supposed to be a Performance version......

It used to, but over time Tesla sent out updates to add power and change the way it operates. Those other manufacturers are just coming into the game; they'll be doing the same over the next few years. Specifically the mach E. Those motors are designed to be stacked, so it's not too far off in the future, they could be adding another 100 or 200 hp with the addition of extra motors.

 

[ArchEtech]

I don’t feel like it falls flat. I don’t feel like it’s slow for a car for its size and weight after 60mph either. Yes it falls off a bit from the sheer monstrous neck snapping of the 0-60 range, however until you get to cars that have significantly more power they are not going to destroy the M3P on the highway either.

No it doesn’t pull like my R35 on E85 did above 60 but it’s definitely almost on par with my RS7 and Panamera if not slightly behind the faster you get…..but only at speeds I almost never drive, ever.

 

[raptor5244]

I actually don't think the M3P really needs more power. It is difficult to use all that it has right now on the street. Ok, maybe a tad more after 60mph just to make it feel more balanced. I do think it needs more character, something to set it apart from the other Model 3s. It just doesn't feel special for a performance trim. There are no sporty interior or exterior features and really nothing in the way of performance improvement except for the 0-60mph software unlock. And now they ditched one of the best tires (MP4S) on the market for the average Pirellis.

So at this point I still think the LR is still the better buy. The Stealth M3P were the best when they were in the low 50k range. If they just add magnetic ride suspension and some seats that can hold you in place that would be a good start.

 

[Sam1]

I don’t feel like it falls flat. I don’t feel like it’s slow for a car for its size and weight after 60mph either. Yes it falls off a bit from the sheer monstrous neck snapping of the 0-60 range, however until you get to cars that have significantly more power they are not going to destroy the M3P on the highway either.

No it doesn’t pull like my R35 on E85 did above 60 but it’s definitely almost on par with my RS7 and Panamera if not slightly behind the faster you get…..but only at speeds I almost never drive, ever.

It's pretty slow 60-130 @ 11.* seconds. My bmw does it under 6 seconds if there's not much wheelspin. Once the m3p hits 100, it's like someone hooked it up to a 10k pound trailer.

 

[ArchEtech]

Well if you accelerate to 130 every day, which almost no one does, then for sure a model 3 performance isn’t the best choice. From 60-90 it’s on par with any performance sedan trying to pass.

 

[MasterC17]

Well if you accelerate to 130 every day, which almost no one does, then for sure a model 3 performance isn’t the best choice. From 60-90 it’s on par with any performance sedan trying to pass.

Sure, but it's a fair critique and for people who are using the car at those speeds (whether drag strip or road course) it's something we would like to have addressed. And we know the Plaid has a nice, flat, power curve so expecting the 3 to have it in the near future is realistic and (for me at least) more than welcome.

 

[Sam1]

Well if you accelerate to 130 every day, which almost no one does, then for sure a model 3 performance isn’t the best choice. From 60-90 it’s on par with any performance sedan trying to pass.

Multiple times per day. benefit of living in the middle of the desert with 15 mile straight stretches everywhere, or 30 minutes away from where a lot of teams and manufacturers attempt speed records on the street.

 

[ArchEtech]

Multiple times per day. benefit of living in the middle of the desert with 15 mile straight stretches everywhere, or 30 minutes away from where a lot of teams and manufacturers attempt speed records on the street.

Ha! Sounds fantastic!

I defiantly would have kept my GTR if I lived somewhere where that was possible and legal!

 

[Sam1]

Ha! Sounds fantastic!

I defiantly would have kept my GTR if I lived somewhere where that was possible and legal!

There's plenty of space down here in the Mojave desert if you're wanting to move. We even have a 6 mile road course out here that they can configure 50 different ways, about 0.25 miles from subdivisions...because who doesn't want that?