Survey: Is Full Self-Driving Capability worth the cost?

[BrerBear]

translation - bad news travels fast

Agree completely, but as a new buyer, and having discussed this topic with other new and prospective buyers, a simple illustration such as this provides a very clear conclusion, that being “if the cost of the option isn’t a problem, go fot it, warts and all, however, if you’re stretching to buy the car, save your money “, or at least that hourI read the results

We were all new buyers once.

My feelings on FSD have gone about 180 degrees since I made my first lease in 2016 (“it’s all happening!”) to my purchase in 2019 (side-eye skepticism) to where I am now (anger).

And I want to put the credit where it is due… Elon is a modern day PT Barnum, but it’s not his wildly off base promises that did the most damage, it’s the constant pressure to buy it now or pay more later. That was the big offense, IMO.

 

[eipi10]

We were all new buyers once.

My feelings on FSD have gone about 180 degrees since I made my first lease in 2016 (“it’s all happening!”) to my purchase in 2019 (side-eye skepticism) to where I am now (anger).

And I want to put the credit where it is due… Elon is a modern day PT Barnum, but it’s not his wildly off base promises that did the most damage, it’s the constant pressure to buy it now or pay more later. That was the big offense, IMO.

Yeah. Can anybody name another major company that sells something that does not exist based on the threat that they will charge more when it does exist? This would make sense for a startup that needs to raise funds to develop the thing that doesn't exist. It makes no sense for Tesla. I agree with another poster's comment that Tesla should be paying people to test FSD betas for them, not requiring people to pay Tesla to test FSD betas.

 

[haroldo]

There's plenty of other car manufacturers out there. No one is being forced to buy.


caveat emptor

Can anybody name another major company that sells something that does not exist based on the threat that they will charge more when it does exist?

Real estate developers

 

[Tam]

...And I want to put the credit where it is due… Elon is a modern day PT Barnum, but it’s not his wildly off base promises that did the most damage, it’s the constant pressure to buy it now or pay more later. That was the big offense, IMO.

Indeed!

Elon Musk implies that the FSD increase to $10,000 is a bargain as quoted below:

"The FSD price will continue to rise as the software gets closer to full self-driving capability with regulatory approval. It that point, the value of FSD is probably somewhere in excess of $100,000."

Tesla to increase 'Full Self-Driving' price as Elon Musk sees value rise to >$100k

Tesla is about to increase the price of its “Full Self-Driving” package again as Elon Musk now evaluates the value...

electrek.co

It is currently nowhere near that valuation despite all Tesla's advantages of mass data collection, modern technology, AI, NN, TeslaVision, radarless... because current FSD beta 9 drivers still have to intervene or they would be in lots of pain.

 

[Tam]

...There's plenty of other car manufacturers out there. No one is being forced to buy...

You are talking as if I am in a small town with one single internet cable provider and you would say I don't need to buy it!

No one in the world is claiming Full Self Driving except Tesla. No one except Tesla claims that owners can earn $30,000 per year with your FSD robotaxi and buying something else is just like buying a horse. No one claiming except Tesla to buy FSD now because it would be deployed by the end of 2019 and Robtaxis were coming in 2020! Only Tesla sells FSD.

It's a monopoly!

 

[Tam]

...Real estate developers...

Are you talking investors or renters?

Investors may gamble their money for future development but a homeowner, a renter does not have to pay for something that is not finished.

At least, a homeowner, a renter should be able to see that the peace of the land has been approved for use and there's no such monkey business "...as well as regulatory approval, which may take longer in some jurisdictions...”

 

[electrifyme]

Why pre-pay for the hope of L5 FSD that may not come for yrs. Don't fall for the FOMO tactics. It's a lot of money for something that you might not ever get before switching to another car.

 

[Tam]

Why pre-pay for the hope of L5 FSD that may not come for yrs. Don't fall for the FOMO tactics. It's a lot of money for something that you might not ever get before switching to another car.

I guess some people do not differentiate between a speculator vs. consumer.

There's no protection for a speculator who loses money when the stock goes down.

However, there's consumer protection when the goods are not delivered as advertised.

My guess is Tesla treats FSD as financial speculation instrument with no consumer protection.

 

[rxlawdude]

Why pre-pay for the hope of L5 FSD that may not come for yrs. Don't fall for the FOMO tactics. It's a lot of money for something that you might not ever get before switching to another car.

There may be some relief for those who purchased FSD but never got the features (say, SAE Level 2 for city driving) in Small Claims Court.

I guess some people do not differentiate between a speculator vs. consumer.

There's no protection for a speculator who loses money when the stock goes down.

However, there's consumer protection when the goods are not delivered as advertised.

My guess is Tesla treats FSD as financial speculation instrument with no consumer protection.

I'm glad your guesses don't have any legal basis with respect to the very clearly published caveats to FSD full functionality.

 

[KJD]

Why pre-pay for the hope of L5 FSD that may not come for yrs. Don't fall for the FOMO tactics. It's a lot of money for something that you might not ever get before switching to another car.

It's a lot of money for something you NEVER get.

 

[rxlawdude]

It's a lot of money for something you NEVER get.

Are you saying that no one will ever get the FSD functionality? Such certainty! What's the S&P 500 going to be on December 30, 2021?

Or do you have Dionne Warwick on speed dial?

 

[Bob Denny]

No survey is perfect. I’ve been there, snipped at by people who point out imperfections. As a way of gauging peoples’ current feelings about this, it serves well. If I were to sit in a bar and ask OWNERS what they thought, I’d get a similar result/distribution. This is useful. Prospective new owners should be able to get the feelings of current owners.

My personal reaction was driven by (a) Tesla’s unfulfilled promise of “full self-driving” by the end of 2020, and (b) my irritation at its quirks and dangerous moves while driving on the highway. This makes me think they may never get there in non-beta/test/experimental/handholding.

 

[2101Guy]

I got one of the best values out of FSD
- bought my S used a couple years ago/it came with EAP
-Caught a sale and upgraded EAP to FSD at $4k a year or so ago
-Sold the S recently (high market) to a private buyer/FSD transferred to that buyer/that buyer valued FSD highly, so the FSD most likely got me about $7k more on the sale overall

I ordered a new S with no FSD (after experiencing FSD for over a year, I found it to not be anywhere near worth $10k for my needs) and with basic AP.

Now that...is getting max $ for FSD. lol.

 

[aelm]

My Model Y without FSD registration didn't come in so Tesla gave me a Model 3 with FSD to drive. I've had it for about a week now and am really grateful I didn't buy FSD. I don't know if they disable parts of FSD on loaners and don't tell you, but the system barely worked for me. Navigate on Autopilot didn't work for me on the Interstate, auto lane change didn't work for me on the Interstate, manually telling it to lane change works like 75% of the time. True level 5 FSD won't be out for many years. They need more/better cameras, sensors, and a general AI to process all the information you process while driving.

 

[haroldo]

the system barely worked for me. Navigate on Autopilot didn't work for me on the Interstate, auto lane change didn't work for me on the Interstate

Sounds like it was crippled, or not set up properly.
When active, it should change lanes 98% of the time when conditions are safe (every now and then it doesn't, probably due to a condition I'm not aware of)

 

[wooter]

I got my 2017 Model X with FSD, and our 2019 Model 3 with FSD and don't regret it. Obviously, I got them cheaper than is now the price, and haven't traded in these cars yet, but overall I've been very happy with it.

Now, obviously, it doesn't offer FSD, and in Europe it's just a very good driver assistance with lane keeping, traffic aware cruise control, auto lane changes and a fairly limited recognition of speed signs (and getting them wrong on the regular, mistaking +3,5T signs for 30kph and reading lower parallel road speed limits). And I never use the autopark; I'm just too quicker .

Having said that, I'd get FSD on my next Tesla right away. It's always improving.

 

[2101Guy]

I got my 2017 Model X with FSD, and our 2019 Model 3 with FSD and don't regret it. Obviously, I got them cheaper than is now the price, and haven't traded in these cars yet, but overall I've been very happy with it.

Now, obviously, it doesn't offer FSD, and in Europe it's just a very good driver assistance with lane keeping, traffic aware cruise control, auto lane changes and a fairly limited recognition of speed signs (and getting them wrong on the regular, mistaking +3,5T signs for 30kph and reading lower parallel road speed limits). And I never use the autopark; I'm just too quicker .

Having said that, I'd get FSD on my next Tesla right away. It's always improving.

Id get it again as well, but just not for $10k USD. It would need to improve a LOT to be worth that amount.

 

[wooter]

Id get it again as well, but just not for $10k USD. It would need to improve a LOT to be worth that amount.

I feel not too bad about 10K, because if you go out and select a comparable full option BMW or Audi, more often than not in Europe you end up with something that is 10 to 20K more expensive than Tesla's full option model, including FSD.

So yeah, FSD is ridiculous at 10K. But you get free wireless charging for 2 smartphones in the front, all the lane keeping, lane entering, traffic aware cruise control, high end satnav, free Spotify integration, automatic memory seats, comfort access, etc etc which are optional extra's with the other brands. I mean, a Tesla Model 3 Performance runs up to ~€75K in Europe, while the upcoming BMW i4 M5 top model *starts* at €73K.

 

[2101Guy]

I feel not too bad about 10K, because if you go out and select a comparable full option BMW or Audi, more often than not in Europe you end up with something that is 10 to 20K more expensive than Tesla's full option model, including FSD.

So yeah, FSD is ridiculous at 10K. But you get free wireless charging for 2 smartphones in the front, all the lane keeping, lane entering, traffic aware cruise control, high end satnav, free Spotify integration, automatic memory seats, comfort access, etc etc which are optional extra's with the other brands. I mean, a Tesla Model 3 Performance runs up to ~€75K in Europe, while the upcoming BMW i4 M5 top model *starts* at €73K.

I hear and respect your opinion. However, the poll results are somewhat telling, especially considering this is a pro-tesla website/forum. Full of tesla lovers. But even among that crowd, the opinions on FSD fall short...

 

[haroldo]

But even among that crowd, the opinions on FSD fall short...

I wonder if any of the dissatisfied FSD owners have tried driving (or have replaced their cars with) a non-FSD car. I imagine it's a love/hate (or maybe a hate/love) relationship. Maybe as a follow up, this group might change their opinions...who knows?

The results of this (much maligned survey) lead to a very straight forward conclusion, that being, as of the current iteration, feelings about FSD seems to be split right down the middle (like everything else these days), with the cost being a large factor.
If you're on the fence, and an extra $10,000 is a stretch, avoid it.
On the other hand, if you can justify the expense, rationalizing that you might recoup some of the extra cost on resale, or maybe in your mind you can amortize the cost over a 7-12 year ownership, then go for it,

The prospective beta release looks like it might win over some fans...IMHO