Supercharging Hardware now standard on 60kwh Model S

[contaygious]

Yeah that's a good point!

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Maybe, this is more of a Poll-like question, but, would some of you be wary of Supercharging for fear of degrading your battery pack faster?!

I know I would be (although I'm very happy that 60 will have SC h/w) and would be nursing my battery to make it last longer.

I'd probably rent a car or fly even, between SF and LA rather than drive my Model S. Otherwise, will have to factor in potential battery degradation too now in addition to wear and tear on such a road trip. That said, I was considering driving to Tahoe atleast during the summer so, hmm...

 

[MikeK]

When are they planning on announcing the Supercharger network and their locations?

I've been told that there will be an event and announcement in September. Of course, I was also told (just a few days ago) that the hardware details wouldn't be announced until that event, so...

 

[smorgasbord]

The Supercharger is a 90kW charger, so it can charge the 85kWh battery half way in about 30 minutes. Half of 265mi = 132.5 miles/30 minutes. A 60kWh pack charged at full 90kW will charge at the same rate.

But, you can't charge the smaller battery at the same rate any more than you can discharge the smaller battery at the same rate - which is why the 0-60 times are different for the different battery sizes, and why it's not worthwhile to quick charge the smaller battery at all. We're talking 1C rates max for supercharging, and by definition that scales with battery size. The reason they talk half charge in 30 minutes is that once the battery gets more than half full, you have to start slowing the charge rate down. Like filling up a jug with a garden hose, you have to start slowing down as the jug gets full.

So, when used with the 60kWh battery, the Supercharger will be restricted to about 60kW. If they bothered doing it with the 40kWh battery, it would be restricted to 40Kw, which isn't that far off from the maximum 20kW you get with the new HPC and twin chargers.

So, single charge EPA range for 60kWh+90kW charging = 187+132.5mi = 319.5mi.

If you're talking a half hour charge time, then no. You'd be at 187+93= 280miles. But, I expect that the Superchargers can be used for more than 30 minutes at a time, although at diminishing miles/hour of charge. If you need to go a long distance and there's another Supercharger down the road, it would be faster to get just enough charge to reach the next SC, or 50% full, whichever comes first, and then charge again. You could stay on the SC for another 15 minutes, but you won't be charging at 90kW (or 60Kw for the 60kWh battery) during that time. So, if you can't reach your destination with that but can reach the next SC station, you'd be better off doing the second charge later.

The two equations for estimating the EPA 5-cycle range of the 60kWh battery are interesting, and differ by about 10%: 265/85*60 (187) vs 265/300*230=203 (203)

The first one figures out how many miles per kWh, then multiplies that by the number of kWhs in the medium battery.
The second one figures a ratio from Tesla's 55 MPH estimate and the EPA 5-cycle, then carries that ratio to the medium battery.

Unfortunately, my gut feel is that the first one is going to turn out to be more accurate.

 

[gocken2]

The two equations for estimating the EPA 5-cycle range of the 60kWh battery are interesting, and differ by about 10%: 265/85*60 (187) vs 265/300*230=203 (203)

The first one figures out how many miles per kWh, then multiplies that by the number of kWhs in the medium battery.
The second one figures a ratio from Tesla's 55 MPH estimate and the EPA 5-cycle, then carries that ratio to the medium battery.

Unfortunately, my gut feel is that the first one is going to turn out to be more accurate.

If you take into account the restricted performance of the 60kWh vs the 85kWh then I believe the second may turn out to be a closer estimate.

 

[RubberToe]

Less battery weight too, that has to be factored in.

RT

 

[NigelM]

In any case, they may want to start slowly, perhaps just SF-LA in the beginning as a testbed until there is a sufficient amount of good experience and positive customer feedback to build more in the same way.

Calicentricity.

:wink:

 

[bonnie]

Calicentricity.

:wink:

It has to start somewhere. Better MY neighborhood than yours .

 

[dmckinstry]

It has to start somewhere. Better MY neighborhood than yours .

But Bonnie, they have to be in Washington and Oregon so we can get to California.:biggrin:
OTOH, if the CHAdeMO adapters are available, we could use the DC chargers being installed along I-5 in WA and OR.
Of course, we'd have to make longer stops north of CA. You wouldn't want that, would you?

 

[vfx]

looks like supercharging "hardware" is now standard on the 60kwh packs as well:...

That is awesome Tesla!! Of course they are looking at a per car loss of ($how much?) but they are weighing that loss VS the requests/indignation/pleas/satifacton of customers.

They also know how the free inclusion of SC will help the big SC announcement carry more oomph. Supercharging ability at no extra cost combined with the smaller batteries will help sales of those cars down the line.

 

[AnOutsider]

Yes, I think your last point weighed more than anything. If the SC is amazing, but only able to be used by their 70k+ cars it would have drawn much scrutiny.

 

[bonnie]

But Bonnie, they have to be in Washington and Oregon so we can get to California.:biggrin:
OTOH, if the CHAdeMO adapters are available, we could use the DC chargers being installed along I-5 in WA and OR.
Of course, we'd have to make longer stops north of CA. You wouldn't want that, would you?

bbq @ my place! Charging for all.

 

[jcstp]

SC in 60 model S, smart from Tesla

 

[brianman]

The reason they talk half charge in 30 minutes is that once the battery gets more than half full, you have to start slowing the charge rate down. Like filling up a jug with a garden hose, you have to start slowing down as the jug gets full.

Bad analogy. I've never done that with a garden hose in my life. So I spill a half cup because my "pinch" reflex isn't perfect, but I definitely don't fill the second half more slowly.

 

[smorgasbord]

So I spill a half cup ...

You don't want to be near your car if charging the battery is spilling electricity. Sorry the analogy doesn't work for you. Maybe I should have said bucket instead of jar.

If you take into account the restricted performance of the 60kWh vs the 85kWh then I believe the second may turn out to be a closer estimate.

If that were true then the MSP wouldn't have the same range as the 85 kWh version.


Tesla's constant 55MPH range to battery size ratios do get better as the battery size gets smaller (300/85=3.53, 230/60 = 3.83, and 160/40 = 4.0), so perhaps there is some hope that EPA range will also get better.

 

[brianman]

Sorry the analogy doesn't work for you. Maybe I should have said bucket instead of jar.

Has nothing to do with the container (bucket/jar). It has to do with the content (water, cheap) and the supply mechanism (garden hose, imprecise). All of this contributes to the analogy just not working at all. I actually fill the second half faster because the aiming is done in the first half.

 

[Bardlebee]

This makes my choice between 60kwh and 80kwh a lot easier... now I am pretty much just picking between acceleration and warranty since I don't care to much about the added range.

Honestly if I could pay a couple thousand extra to get the acceleration of the 80kwh I would. 10k though is a bit of a jump for me... jury is still out...

 

[contaygious]

I would have gotten 60 if it weren't for performance and all it's fancy options. I did help justify it with supercharging since I'm not getting fancy charger station or twin chargers. Oh well, too late now. Performance it is!

 

[gocken2]

If that were true then the MSP wouldn't have the same range as the 85 kWh version.

Tesla quotes the range for the MSP and 85 kWh as 300 at a constant 55mph. This would make sense since they both would be drawing the same current from the same battery. Did the EPA rate both the MSP and the 85kWh? I bet they only rated the 85kWh and if they actually tested the MSP we will be getting a reduced range on the EPA's test. This is only true if the EPA uses max acceleration in their tests.

 

[smorgasbord]

This is only true if the EPA uses max acceleration in their tests.

Which I don't believe they do.