Supercharger Announcement 2013/05/30

[yobigd20]

Please include edit the OP to include these links with the notation "actual announcement info":
Supercharger Announcement 2013/05/30 - Page 19
Supercharger Announcement 2013/05/30 - Page 22

I tend to see this here and there on the site and I find it annoying when things are linked in and referenced by 'page number' in the text. That is only valid when everyone is using the same page settings as you are. For instance, mine are set at 100 posts per page, so 'page 19' and 'page 22' mean nothing to me since this thread is only 3 pages long for me. So if I wanted to link the same two posts, if I specified it by page # it would be page #1 and page #2 and that won't make sense to anyone that doesn't have the same 100 posts per page setting as me. I'd much rather things be referenced by there post# (e.g. post #182 and #218) that makes much more sense and you can easily find the right post by their number. Anywho, not really a rant I just wanted to point out that describing where the post is by page # doesn't actually help.

 

[AnOutsider]

I tend to see this here and there on the site and I find it annoying when things are linked in and referenced by 'page number' in the text. That is only valid when everyone is using the same page settings as you are. For instance, mine are set at 100 posts per page, so 'page 19' and 'page 22' mean nothing to me since this thread is only 3 pages long for me. So if I wanted to link the same two posts, if I specified it by page # it would be page #1 and page #2 and that won't make sense to anyone that doesn't have the same 100 posts per page setting as me. I'd much rather things be referenced by there post# (e.g. post #182 and #218) that makes much more sense and you can easily find the right post by their number. Anywho, not really a rant I just wanted to point out that describing where the post is by page # doesn't actually help.

The titles of the links he posted were automatically generated by the forum (it always grabs the page title of the linked page). As his links go direct to the posts, it doesn't matter what your settings are. Click and go.

 

[yobigd20]

I tend to agree.

1. If you worry about range anxiety, charge to ~90%.
2. If you worry about battery lifetime, charge exactly what you need and take no detours.

Most of us are somewhere in between 1 and 2.

But for #2, by "exactly what you need", if you need 50 miles, should you charge to 50-60 miles and take the battery down to 0-10 miles? (obviously not).

We all already know that going to 100% often is bad. So max ranging to 265 and then down to 215 and then back up to 265 daily is probably the harshest you could do to the battery.

But what about the opposite? At what point is considered "too low", and for people that have only a 20-50 miles commute (probably most sane people unlike my daily 210 mile commute), what is the lowest SOC level that we should be "always try to stay above"? 10 miles? 20 miles? 30 miles?

Or do we want the "average SOC to be 50%" e.g. for 50 mile RT commute, assuming 130 miles is the "mid-point (halfway from 0-260)", should we be charging to 155 miles, then taking it down to 105 miles, and then back up to 155 miles so that the "average" is 130? That method probably isn't optimal either, because in order for that calculation to be valid, the same amount of time spent at 105 would have to match the same amount of time spent at 155.

 

[aviators99]

2. the other main thing that bugs me is, even looking at the long term map, it feels like the North West, one of the hottest EV markets in the US, is getting seriously shorted when it comes to planned Superchargers. we need the kind of saturation that is planned for the lower half of CA! It looks like we will see 5 SC's eventually but only along I-5 and 90, that leaves out the entire Olympic Peninsula and large chunks of Easter WA,where last weekend I had to charge at 12A for 64 hours to get home. It's hard not to feel a bit of resentment about this given how loyal this area has been to Tesla. the conclusion to both my points is the same, we need a CHAdeMO and TT30 adapter ASAP to fill in all the holes! pretty please!!!!

The whole Olympic Peninsula is covered in the SC circles as of this summer. As stated by many, the origins and destinations are not what this plan tries to cover; it's the means of getting from the origin to the destination. There really are only two superhighways in Washington, and they have them covered. And you can get anywhere in the state, including the Olympics, by selected locations. By this fall, you can get to anywhere in the state.

 

[bollar]

But for #2, by "exactly what you need", if you need 50 miles, should you charge to 50-60 miles and take the battery down to 0-10 miles? (obviously not).

We all already know that going to 100% often is bad. So max ranging to 265 and then down to 215 and then back up to 265 daily is probably the harshest you could do to the battery.

But what about the opposite? At what point is considered "too low", and for people that have only a 20-50 miles commute (probably most sane people unlike my daily 210 mile commute), what is the lowest SOC level that we should be "always try to stay above"? 10 miles? 20 miles? 30 miles?

Or do we want the "average SOC to be 50%" e.g. for 50 mile RT commute, assuming 130 miles is the "mid-point (halfway from 0-260)", should we be charging to 155 miles, then taking it down to 105 miles, and then back up to 155 miles so that the "average" is 130? That method probably isn't optimal either, because in order for that calculation to be valid, the same amount of time spent at 105 would have to match the same amount of time spent at 155.

Probably the worst thing you can do is charge to 100% and then not go anywhere. It's the prolonged holding at 100% that appears to do the most damage. Tesla has been consistent that if you need a "range" charge, you should use it - the impact on the battery is negligible.

From brianman's transcript of today's announcement:

Battery warranty unaffected even if using SC daily. SC doesn't affect the life of the pack very much; slight but quite negligible. What's more important in SOC; not storing the pack when full. Cell phones and laptops are typically kept in the worst conditions. Best thing is mid SOC and cold.

 

[Seattle]

The whole Olympic Peninsula is covered in the SC circles as of this summer. As stated by many, the origins and destinations are not what this plan tries to cover; it's the means of getting from the origin to the destination. There really are only two superhighways in Washington, and they have them covered. And you can get anywhere in the state, including the Olympics, by selected locations. By this fall, you can get to anywhere in the state.

That's an excellent point about Tesla's ranging circles being about getting to your destination, or to another supercharger, and not the return trip. In the northwest, we should add some high power 70amp chargers in places that aren't covered by superchargers ourselves. In the Northwest section, there is discussion of high power chargers at Port Angeles and somewhere east of Seattle.

And in reply to 100thMonkey, I wish we could buy one of those discussed converter-boxes that lets you gang up two TT-30 outlets into 240v 30 amps, and hopefully would work with just a single TT-30 (120v but 30 amps through UMC) for Model S'. If someone made those, there'd be a ready audience. I'd like to buy one. The two obvious missing power issues for Tesla are TT-30 and Chademo. TT-30 is easily fixable. Chademo runs into the political and long term brand value questions for Tesla.

I just wish I'd gotten dual chargers, even though I've never really needed them and only once have connected up to a 70amp system.

 

[Doug_G]

And if a Hotel does not offer a charger, I'll stay at another Hotel.

This! I'm now only staying at hotels that provide EV charging. If I call them up and they don't have charging, I tell them thank you but I can't stay at your hotel because you don't offer EV charging. Fortunately other hotels do.

 

[DrJohnM]

"It's rather silly to go out of the way (putting miles on the car and wasting time) just to get free juice (even if it's expensive otherwise)."

Oh you have never been to europe before! People will drive to another country just to fill up their fuel tank (no more than ~50km of course )! What I want to say is that people will waste their time just to get free juice....

Yes, they do (if your lucky enough to live adjacent to another country where it is beneficial), but then when it costs €100+ to fill up your tank, it can make it worth while.

While the cost of electricity may be more in Europe than the USA, the cost of petrol is far worse. Add in the convenience of not having to visit a petrol station (or SC station) and waking every day with a full tank.

People will charge at home.

The question you should be asking, is how much do I save at home to fill up v the cost of the petrol.

 

[Lloyd]

This! I'm now only staying at hotels that provide EV charging. If I call them up and they don't have charging, I tell them thank you but I can't stay at your hotel because you don't offer EV charging. Fortunately other hotels do.

I'm doing this regardless of whether I'm driving my Tesla or not! If they don't ask them to recommend one that does. It really hurts to send business to the competition. Make a statement!!

 

[Timothy]

New obelisk too.

View attachment 22860

Where is Darth and his storm troopers?

 

[aviators99]

I just wish I'd gotten dual chargers, even though I've never really needed them and only once have connected up to a 70amp system.

In the realm of regrets, consider yourself lucky. At least you can buy the second charger. The performance package, on the other hand... :-(

 

[SuperCoug]

a remarkable number only have 30A TT30's for which there is no Tesla adapter.

Why the heck doesn't Tesla offer a TT30 adapter? They are at EVERY RV park and that is certainly not true of 50 amp service. I realize it's only 110 power but it would be able to pull 24 amps at 110 volts if they made an adapter.

On a side note, I've been trying to make a TT30 to NEMA 14-50 adapter that works with my UMC. I have not been successful so far. The error I'm getting on the UMC is 4 flashing red lights which implies it cannot find a ground but when I test it with an outlet checker it shows a properly working ground. (of course I have to use an adapter in the TT30 to use my household outlet tester)

 

[ChrisC]

Has the audio of the announcement call been released in some public form yet? I don't want to register with Tesla to hear it (which is what you have to do to get it via ir.teslamotors.com ).

 

[SuperCoug]

Source? I've never come across an RV site that didn't have 14-50s; it's by far the most popular plug for the RVs out there.

Come to the west coast and you'll find LOTS of RV lots without 50 amp service.

 

[DrJohnM]

"Your cost per mile for gasoline in Europe is what--5 to 10 times larger than your cost per mile using electricity with the Model S? This problem is solved."

Not necessarily:

80KWH/400Km=0,2KWH/Km -->20KWH/100Km, 0,4 ct/KWH --->8EUR/100Km

Diesel: car: 6l/100Km ----> 1,4 EUR/litre --->8,4EUR/100Km

- - - Updated - - -

0,4 ct i mean EUR

Yes - if you can get 6l/100km. A BMW 750i (the sort of performance and size comparison of the MS) will get you 11.9l/100km urban and 8.6 combined.

I see you able to get overnight rates in Austria. salzburg-ag at shows an overnight price (total) is 11.1c kW/h + a €13.20 annual fee for the night metering.

So your petrol costs could be more like €12 to €17 and the electricity more like €5

Put PV on the roof (as many Austrians do) and sell back to the grid, further reducing the overall cost.

Of course, you can drive a Diesel ecobox, nip over to Switzerland to refill and get better results. Life is all about choice.

 

[SuperCoug]

no? have you read the release notes for 4.5?

"Charge Limit: Many customers have asked for the ability to adjust the Model S charge level based on individual anticipated driving needs. To provide this flexibility, charge level options, Standard and Max Range, have been replaced with a slider that allows you to specify the charge limit by percentage.

"You can select from 30% to 100% charge."

"Daily: to maximize battery longevity, only charge to the level needed"

I think the release notes suggest that people have requested lower charge limits than the original standard and range and by offering the option it would seem that Tesla agrees that only charging as much as you need on a daily basis helps battery longevity, which supports my assertion that one of the values of a metro located Supercharger would be for the off occasion that one has an unforeseen need on days that only a commute depth charge was scheduled. it's interesting to note that Nissan mentioned a while back that when they added QC's to a place in Japan that had already had quite a few Leafs, they noticed that just the simple presence of a fast charger helps people relax and dip lower into the SOC. metro Superchargers will be a safety blanket at the very least, certainly a lot fewer of them are needed for a car like the S but still they will be valuable in helping people relax with this technology, which is more than half the battle IMHO.

You'll probably be happy to see that there appears to be a Supercharger planned for downtown Seattle. Not sure where they plan on putting it, perhaps the service center?

 

[brianman]

You'll probably be happy to see that there appears to be a Supercharger planned for downtown Seattle. Not sure where they plan on putting it, perhaps the service center?

Looks like Bellevue, Renton, and Seattle are all possibles for that one.
Supercharger Overlay 2015 (Large - 5145 x 3308)

 

[Beavis]

I wish it were in time for Teslive. So sad.

 

[100thMonkey]

Um, I don't think you get it. for now, a TT30 requires a 5-15 adapter for use with the UMC, dropping you down to 12A, thats about 3 mph. if your destination only has TT30's, which a remarkable number of camp/RV sites around here do, you are looking at several days of 24 hour charging... it took me 64 hours last weekend to go from a 20% SOC to 95%. the fact is, round trip is the true range limit in such cases for anything but long stays at a single place, so no, the Olympic Peninsula is not covered.

Really, Tesla and everyone else should look at what Oregon is doing with it's CHAdeMO network to see a shining example of a very well thought out fast charging network. It includes multiple metro QC's and QC's going out along major scenic byways, it's tourism brilliance. Oregon is way ahead of everyone else and yes I'm jealous, particularly because I'd love to plug into even a small fraction of those QC's! this CHAdeMO issue is not going to go away, it's only going to get worse and it appears Tesla has no idea how insulting it is to us Tesla owners in this area to not have access to an adapter. I'd prefer a Supercharger to a CHAdeMo QC any day, but I'd take CHAdeMO over a TT30 any day just like I'd take a TT30 over a 5-15. the lack of a CHAdeMO adapter and a TT30 adapter will not be made up for by the current plans for super charging, not without several more super chargers in key locations along the scenic byway of rt 2 and the Olympic circle.

The whole Olympic Peninsula is covered in the SC circles as of this summer. As stated by many, the origins and destinations are not what this plan tries to cover; it's the means of getting from the origin to the destination. There really are only two superhighways in Washington, and they have them covered. And you can get anywhere in the state, including the Olympics, by selected locations. By this fall, you can get to anywhere in the state.

 

[brianman]

it took me 64 hours last weekend to go from a 20% SOC to 95%.

So going by rated range of 265 for "100%"... 3.1mph... and that's using Rated (which is fantasy in my world).