Maybe I am wrong, but pretty sure you still need at least three sats in view for GPS. Preferably more than that. Simply because of geometry, I think, but redundancy is good too.Bottom line. . . Who owns the current satellites you enjoy using for your GPS. Remember, I started using GPS back in 1983 and we needed three satellites within line of sight to function. Most taxpayer satellites are used free of charge by corporations, if I am not mistaken.
I would switch to Tesla internet service faster than the fastest computer in existence today ~ bar none ~ amen.
If net neutrality is no longer open and free ~ Tesla wins the game
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Etna
Member
My guess is that Starlink may have a lot to do with AI and its associated humongous data processing requirement. Tesla cars have pretty powerful processor units and they could all become part of a massively parallel AI ecosystem. This can only work if Tesla/SpaceX has control of the data network. I know it sounds a bit crazy but I think it makes plenty of sense.
Yep, although...
If you had a fix, and know your altitude (via barometer or topo map), you can continue on 2 sats, but I don't know of a commercial system that would do that for you. (intersection of the two range spheres from the 2 sats forms a circle of places you could be, third sat turns that circle into two points, one of which would be illogical (outer space)).
Processing would need to be local to vehicle for the active driving, but this would allow a crazy amount of driving/ image data to be collected. Including reacting to accidents/ signal changes/ construction zones....
(also big brother, good for Amber Alerts, bad if misused).
ValueAnalyst
Closed
All Teslas have a data link back to Fremont via the cellular network. This is used for updates and diagnostics along with map data and music streaming.
Starlink is a SpaceX satellite based communication network that could theoretically replace the cellular link at a lower cost and provide higher performance.
SpaceX is in large part owned by Elon, so I'd expect good pricing and synergy.
I've seen no references to Starlink and Tesla. While Tesla using Starlink has obvious synergies, I do not understand why there are so many references on this board suggesting a correlation between the two. If someone can cite a Tesla announcement or forecast I'd be grateful.
Given Starlink has yet to have any sats in orbit, an announcement would be premature. (launching two this week, hence the increase in mentions)
However, if you owned/ ran a company and were faced with the prospect of having to pay service fees on millions of cars worth of data, and you also owned/ran a satellite launching company with crazy low launch costs, it seems reasonable to consider using one to eliminate the other...
ValueAnalyst
Closed
In other words, this could save Tesla a few ten million dollars per year in data cost? Is that it or are we missing some big obvious synergy?
don't know about that, what is the hardware cost of a satellite uplink on the car? its probably significantly cheaper to stay cellular on an upfront basis.
Heh, heh.
Even if that is true, it will not have any trouble - unlike every other communications system - providing tera-width to +63.02N Lat / -145.30W Long.....
===>...and that is all I care about
.<=== Anything is better than 19th c telegraph wires strung atop caribou antlers.apologies to a certain redundancy in nomenclature above
You say "continue", and I think you're mostly correct, but unfortunately with only two signals you don't actually have range data; for that you also need to know the time to great accuracy, and receivers' clocks aren't accurate enough. What the receiver "knows" is the difference in distance from the two satellites, which gives you a locus. At least that's my understanding. Three satellites for position (and now the receiver knows the time from the signals), four if you want any accuracy in vertical dimension, and five is required for RAIM (Receiver Autonomous Integrity Monitoring), which is required to do GPS approaches in airplanes (or other safety-critical applications).
Good point (oh the rabbit holes I dig). Yeah, given only the position of the two satellites and the difference in distance to them (not absolute range), you end up with a surface of points instead of a circle. So the receiver could not determine which way (or if) you were moving along that surface without further information.
SpaceX is doing their own radio systems, so it might not be much more than a 3rd party cellular module HW wise. Depends if it needs beam steering.
Well, well. Prototype internet satellites to be launched 2/17 and Tesla Fremont will be one ground station. Very exciting.
SpaceX is about to launch its first prototype internet satellites and Tesla is getting a ground station
SpaceX is about to launch its first prototype internet satellites and Tesla is getting a ground station
Starlink ground stations are expected to be pizza box sized, more or less, and operate as a phased array to steer it's transmission/reception towards the Starlink satellites (and they will do the same as well).
In terms of hypothetical integration with a Tesla car, I suspect they will more or less standardize the package and just have to find a place on the vehicle that can be made RF transparent for the required spectrum (well into the microwave range I think?), and the box will take in power and provide an Ethernet port.
Perhaps Tesla gets customized Starlink housings to make them more flush with the vehicle somehow, but they're still going to need someplace that is RF transparent to put it, so unless we start seeing at least partially plastic hoods or trunks, I'm not sure where they would put it. I don't think the bumpers are going to be anywhere near large enough...
In terms of hypothetical integration with a Tesla car, I suspect they will more or less standardize the package and just have to find a place on the vehicle that can be made RF transparent for the required spectrum (well into the microwave range I think?), and the box will take in power and provide an Ethernet port.
Perhaps Tesla gets customized Starlink housings to make them more flush with the vehicle somehow, but they're still going to need someplace that is RF transparent to put it, so unless we start seeing at least partially plastic hoods or trunks, I'm not sure where they would put it. I don't think the bumpers are going to be anywhere near large enough...
Recent updates put the ground unit dimensions as laptop sized. (Ka band, I believe, Ku for main feed, second constellation with V band). So hood, roof, or trunk deck may be possibilities. Could be externally mounted (hopefully heated) to avoid RF materials issues.
Edit: unvalidated idea: That weird hole in the 3's rear deck?
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You are thinking too small here.
Where Tesla is likely going with all of this is the creation of their own services to include music, video, etc. Think media subscription services (potentially ads as well). They have a captive audience in their vehicles already. Once FSD is realized you will have peoples full attention for an hour and a half on average per day (wild guess). The end state would be to monetize that time. This would all take a tremendous amount of bandwidth to accomplish this, hence Starlink.
Note that I am speculating a bit here, but Elon has already mentioned they working on their own music services. This is the logical path IMO.
ValueAnalyst
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Krugerrand
Meow
Would those be similar laws to those that prevent Tesla from selling their cars directly to consumers in several states?
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