San Diego: SDG&E Rate Help for New MS85 Owner

[liuping]

ok we may have all crossed paths then. i am in 92130 but just west of santaluz. i swear i have seen a GOBLUE license plate in my area, also a michigan alum. only one more week to go for you - i'm jealous!

liuping - do you mind me asking who did your photosync and XPEL? i haven't scoured TMC that much but would love to see some pics of your S85 since we will be joining the pearl white club soon. i am thinking 15% on the back and 35% on the sides for mine.

I got the photosync at Monumental Worx and Xpel at Auto Armour LLC. PM me if you want and we meet up somewhere so you see it in person, since pics do not do the pearl white justice.

- - - Updated - - -

Definitely sure I have seen you then. Saw a Pearl White MS heading east towards I-5 on Del Mar Heights this morning.

That was not me this time. My son had late start at School today, so I when a different way.

 

[Crispix]

GoBlue,
The one thing you're missing that is worth factoring in...in the summer season, the on-peak solar power you're selling to the grid is credited at EV-TOU2 peak price (44 cents) and if you charge your car after midnight then you're billed at 16 cents. So you make that margin - almost 3 to 1....In the tiered rate scenario, the credit is 1 to 1.

This this this! Randy (as usual) has excellent advice. I got solar a couple months ago and have TOU2 rates and am loving it. Before the solar panels, I was obsessed with not running appliances from noon to 6 (peak rates), now I don't even think about it. And the true-up with SDGE is annual, so summer peak rate overproduction can be used the rest of the year.

It's almost too good to be true: I'm overproducing during the most expensive part of the day, and buying back at a significant discount when I use most of my power at night. I can see why SRE wants to change the rules. I'm glad I'm locked in for 20 years.

 

[Crispix]

A follow-up because I just got my bill from SDG&E for May. Some numbers to support TOU2 with solar:

Had I been on regular tiered rates, my net energy usage for the last month was a whopping 4kwh, so the solar offset my actual usage almost exactly. But because I'm on TOU2 rates, I banked almost a $100 credit that can be used in the winter when I'm not generating as much. (And I even ran the A/C during peak hours when we had the hot spell.) TOU2 for the win!

 

[GoBlue88]

A follow-up because I just got my bill from SDG&E for May. Some numbers to support TOU2 with solar:

Had I been on regular tiered rates, my net energy usage for the last month was a whopping 4kwh, so the solar offset my actual usage almost exactly. But because I'm on TOU2 rates, I banked almost a $100 credit that can be used in the winter when I'm not generating as much. (And I even ran the A/C during peak hours when we had the hot spell.) TOU2 for the win!

Yeah, more research and talking with my DS yesterday when I picked up the car has convinced me to switch to TOU2. So, I just sent the request into SDG&E on their website. Quick and easy.

Thanks for all the info!

 

[wamochi]

A follow-up because I just got my bill from SDG&E for May. Some numbers to support TOU2 with solar:

Had I been on regular tiered rates, my net energy usage for the last month was a whopping 4kwh, so the solar offset my actual usage almost exactly. But because I'm on TOU2 rates, I banked almost a $100 credit that can be used in the winter when I'm not generating as much. (And I even ran the A/C during peak hours when we had the hot spell.) TOU2 for the win!

thanks crispix. so is the $100 credit is basically coming from the fact that you are getting peak rates during the day and using cheaper kwh at night?

i don't know what the current rates are, but let's say its 26c and 16c, and your production/use was 1000 kwh for simplicity:

so you made 1000 kwh during the peak hours @ 26c = $260.00 credit
and used 1000 kwh during off peak hours @ 16c = $160.00 charge

net metering bill was ($260) + $160 = ($100) NEM credit?

is the hypothetical example basically how it's calculated?? if so, that is unreal and a definite ++++++++++++ to go TOU

 

[Crispix]

net metering bill was ($260) + $160 = ($100) NEM credit?

is the hypothetical example basically how it's calculated?? if so, that is unreal and a definite ++++++++++++ to go TOU

Well, the short answer is, "yes, that's about right."

The long answer is that the $100 credit can only be used to offset actual usage during the rest of the year (there's an annual true-up). If, over the course of the entire year, I end up over-generating beyond my actual annual usage, that annual excess is only credited at something like $.04/kwh.

Also, there is a $5 monthly minimum that SDGE charges and I don't think excess generation can be used as a credit on the minimum fee. So my maximum benefit is seen only if I'm under-generating during the winter (and get to apply my spring/summer credits) because otherwise it means my solar array is too large and I overspent.

So that's my understanding of it. RandyS should be able to confirm I've got it about right. My solar installer recommended installing enough panels to aim to offset ~95% usage because it's better to be slightly under than over, economically speaking.

 

[wamochi]

Well, the short answer is, "yes, that's about right."

The long answer is that the $100 credit can only be used to offset actual usage during the rest of the year (there's an annual true-up). If, over the course of the entire year, I end up over-generating beyond my actual annual usage, that annual excess is only credited at something like $.04/kwh.

Also, there is a $5 monthly minimum that SDGE charges and I don't think excess generation can be used as a credit on the minimum fee. So my maximum benefit is seen only if I'm under-generating during the winter (and get to apply my spring/summer credits) because otherwise it means my solar array is too large and I overspent.

So that's my understanding of it. RandyS should be able to confirm I've got it about right. My solar installer recommended installing enough panels to aim to offset ~95% usage because it's better to be slightly under than over, economically speaking.

thanks for the reply. we've been on NEM for 6 months now and were -670 in April and -600 in May. based on the Tiered billing, we got NEM credits of ($173) in April and ($151) in May. i'll have to download the daily usage to determine how the TOU would have looked in terms of the credit dollars.

i noticed the Tier 4 billing in May was at $0.40/kWh - crazy!!

thanks again!

 

[wamochi]

ok i just plugged in the data from the last billing cycle. total was -600.14 kwh on the bill, resulting in NEM credit of ($151.17):

So for Tiered (regular) billing:

000-281 kWh @ $0.16 = 44.96
282-365 kWh @ $0.19 = 15.96
366-562 kWh @ $0.38 = 74.86
563-600 kWh @ $0.40 = 15.20

Total NEM credit of ($151) with Tiered billing above


i just did the TOU calculations and came up with:

On Peak @ $0.44 x -876 = ($385)
Off Peak @ $0.20 x 162 = $32
Super Off Peak @ $0.16 x 114 = $18

For a total NEM credit of ($335) for EV-TOU-2 !!!!!! that is more than double the NEM credit under tiered billing :scared:

 

[liuping]

For a total NEM credit of ($335) for EV-TOU-2 !!!!!! that is more than double the NEM credit under tiered billing :scared:

Wow, you have a lot of production.

Your Model S will be able to use 55 Super Off Peak kWh a day (roughly 165 miles) and you'll still be at $0 for the month.

 

[GoBlue88]

Does anyone know how long it takes for SDG&E to switch a customer to TOU-2? I submitted the request through their website 2 weeks ago, but have received no communications about when they'll make the switch or even the status. I can't find anything on their website under my account that says I have been switched - it is still showing that I am on the tiered system. I have no emails acknowledging the request either.

 

[Crispix]

I seem to recall they were really quick, but didn't communicate that at all. I sent an email asking after a week and they wrote back that it was already done. Sure enough, my next bill reflected the TOU2 rates. I don't think I would have gotten any notification had I not asked.

I'm pretty sure the web site didn't update until the next billing cycle started, although after it updated I could see the rate change was retroactive. I don't quite remember for sure, so I might be wrong.

 

[GoBlue88]

I seem to recall they were really quick, but didn't communicate that at all. I sent an email asking after a week and they wrote back that it was already done. Sure enough, my next bill reflected the TOU2 rates. I don't think I would have gotten any notification had I not asked.

I'm pretty sure the web site didn't update until the next billing cycle started, although after it updated I could see the rate change was retroactive. I don't quite remember for sure, so I might be wrong.

OK, thanks. My billing cycle just ended 2 days ago, so maybe I'll see it with the next cycle.

 

[GoBlue88]

Just got my first bill with an entire cycle on TOU-2 rates. Also the entire cycle charging the MS at home pretty much every night.

Total kWh used:
on Peak: -277
off Peak: 266
super off Peak: 485

Net kWh: 474. Last July bill I netted out at 190 on the tiered system (didn't have the MS back then). The total for that bill was $28.18. Last time I netted about this much was back in February (446 kWh). That bill was $75 under the cheaper winter rates.

Total for this bill, with a 150% increase in kWh drawn from the grid compared to last July: $10.96!!!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Details:
266*$0.20 = $53.20
485*$0.16 = $77.60
-277*$0.44 = -$121.80

Tack on $1.96 in fees and you get $10.96. $10.96 / 474 = $0.0231 per kWh. Unbelievable.

 

[liuping]

Just got my first bill with an entire cycle on TOU-2 rates. Also the entire cycle charging the MS at home pretty much every night.

Total kWh used:
on Peak: -277
off Peak: 266
super off Peak: 485

Net kWh: 474. Last July bill I netted out at 190 on the tiered system (didn't have the MS back then). The total for that bill was $28.18. Last time I netted about this much was back in February (446 kWh). That bill was $75 under the cheaper winter rates.

Total for this bill, with a 150% increase in kWh drawn from the grid compared to last July: $10.96!!!! :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

Details:
266*$0.20 = $53.20
485*$0.16 = $77.60
-277*$0.44 = -$121.80

Tack on $1.96 in fees and you get $10.96. $10.96 / 474 = $0.0231 per kWh. Unbelievable.

Solar + EV is an awesome combo in San Diego!

Summer months are extra sweat, since the peek rates are so high.

In winter peak and off peak are almost the same, so your bill would be about $69 higher if winter rates were in effect last month. (266*0.19456 + 485*.17172 - 277*0.19842 = $80.07)

 

[GoBlue88]

Solar + EV is an awesome combo in San Diego!

Summer months are extra sweat, since the peek rates are so high.

In winter peak and off peak are almost the same, so your bill would be about $69 higher if winter rates were in effect last month. (266*0.19456 + 485*.17172 - 277*0.19842 = $80.07)

Yeah, I expect that. Even without EV charging, my bills flipped between winter and summer once I turned the solar system on.

 

[wamochi]

sorry to revive an old thread, but i have a question for all the SDG&E TOU + solar customers on here:

we just had our third annual true-up with solar! as you know, this past year the monthly minimums went up to about $10/mo (increase from $5/mo the prior year). on my last billing cycle ending 11/24/16, the minimum charge adjustment was $30+, so that the total minimum charges for the 12 month period was just over $120.

i thought the min chg was $10 for the months that you were negative? we had 9 months x $10 of min chg up through October, and then all of a sudden it's $30 this month? i haven't called SDG&E yet, but was wondering if anyone has seen the same type of thing on a recent true up bill?

we did end up being quite negative in generation credits this past year, so i'm not sure if they just conclude that if the overall year is negative, then the min chg is assessed on all 12 months ...?

 

[demundus]

GoBlue,
The one thing you're missing that is worth factoring in...in the summer season, the on-peak solar power you're selling to the grid is credited at EV-TOU2 peak price (44 cents) and if you charge your car after midnight then you're billed at 16 cents. So you make that margin - almost 3 to 1....In the tiered rate scenario, the credit is 1 to 1.

Of course, this assumes that you're not making more power than you consume on an annual basis...Any production in excess of what you consume annually is paid at a wholesale rate...But in the meantime, you can really be racking it up on your PV system production on the EV-TOU2 rate...

Sorry to hijack but I just want to make ABSOLUTELY sure this is right. I called a rep today who told me the same thing at SDGE. It just seems so far fetched, why wouldn't everyone be doing this? I generate at 44 cents when I'm not home/at work and use at 17 cents overnight. That means I can put a measly 4KW system on my house, generating about 330kwh/mo and it completely pays for my 1000 kwh/mo usage (bulk of which is overnight)

Can you confirm this just one more time for me?

 

[miimura]

Sorry to hijack but I just want to make ABSOLUTELY sure this is right. I called a rep today who told me the same thing at SDGE. It just seems so far fetched, why wouldn't everyone be doing this? I generate at 44 cents when I'm not home/at work and use at 17 cents overnight. That means I can put a measly 4KW system on my house, generating about 330kwh/mo and it completely pays for my 1000 kwh/mo usage (bulk of which is overnight)

Can you confirm this just one more time for me?

Yes, this is absolutely how Net Energy Metering works. However, you have to factor how much more power you use than generate in the late afternoon until 6pm. I have a hill to my west and my generation goes in the toilet after 4:30pm and since I'm on the PG&E EV rate, my Peak period goes until 9pm. So, especially in my case, the Peak credits earned are not nearly as big as they could be.

One more thing, the Winter rate spread is much smaller than Summer on EV-TOU-2. Summer is a differential of 29.7c/kWh and Winter is only 2.8c/kWh.

That is the rate table from the tariff effective Jan 1, 2017. They have increased since the figures you posted above.

 

[demundus]

Yes, this is absolutely how Net Energy Metering works. However, you have to factor how much more power you use than generate in the late afternoon until 6pm. I have a hill to my west and my generation goes in the toilet after 4:30pm and since I'm on the PG&E EV rate, my Peak period goes until 9pm. So, especially in my case, the Peak credits earned are not nearly as big as they could be.

One more thing, the Winter rate spread is much smaller than Summer on EV-TOU-2. Summer is a differential of 29.7c/kWh and Winter is only 2.8c/kWh.

View attachment 214980
That is the rate table from the tariff effective Jan 1, 2017. They have increased since the figures you posted above.

Fortunately I live on a hill with a N/S roof and no shade on my roof. Basically an awesome situation now that ive learned this.

Thanks for confirming!!

 

[csanders90D]

Also remember that you morning solar isn't being credited at the peak rate. I'd estimate that only about 60% of my solar production is credited at peak. If I'd thought more about the timing of the rate tiers, I might have installed more panels on the west side.