Perhaps the bigger problem is that we don’t know what the waterline is going to be. We all see that guy who has driven a grand total of three miles post up an image of a 100 score and we experience waves of angst that we’re getting out competed by someone else. In reality if we knew that Tesla considers anyone above a 75 or something as a safe enough, then we’d know that typical, defensive American city driving behavior would suffice.
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Safety Score
- Thread starter ScottNY
- Start date
Perhaps the bigger problem is that we don’t know what the waterline is going to be. We all see that guy who has driven a grand total of three miles post up an image of a 100 score and we experience waves of angst that we’re getting out competed by someone else. In reality if we knew that Tesla considers anyone above a 75 or something as a safe enough, then we’d know that typical, defensive American city driving behavior would suffice.
EVNow
Well-Known Member
They are using ML to check how likely we are to cause accidents. Ofcourse ML won’t be correct for everyone. Similar technology to how they develop FSD, BTW.
You are still confusing beta wide availability (like current AP) and pre-release Beta.
What seems to work for most (me included) is completely deleting the app from your iOS device and then going to the App Store and reinstalling.
DCEV
Member
Honestly I don't care at this point what the waterline is.
This has completely ruined the car for me. On Sundays I always go on a short drive to enjoy the car. That joy is now gone.
As safe as I am, as conservative as I am, I don't want to in the back of my mind think like I'm walking on some BS Orwellian test of eggshells when I drive the car, especially when some of the test factors have nothing to do with safety and even less to do with the correlation to safely monitor FSD.
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The “signal for lane changes” would get me on 1 road i drive. There’s a bike lane and there’s always a few bikes to pass on the road every day. Many times the bikes are too near the car lane. There’s a suicide lane in the middle and I routinely use it to be away from the bikers . I’m not really turning left so I don’t run my blinkers. The car is very spotty about seeing these bikers. I checked yesterday when this happened and the display had no biker, which I was actively avoiding. Showed my car as being over line just fine.
If folks are not seeing the Safety Score in the app, try logging out and back in
(not restarting the app: I mean sign off and re-enter your Tesla credentials)
DCEV
Member
Again for the millionth time. This will be in beta forever. Heck even the wipers are in beta since I bought the car 3 years ago. I bet the wipers will never come out of beta. But most of us know all this when we bought the car and it is access to the beta that we paid.
People have waited 3+ years for a beta they have already paid for.
Honestly I think the only fair thing to do is to offer access to this product in the order people signed up as long as they are not abusing the system and they have a safe driving record of no at fault accidents.
Or perhaps give people who bought FSD 30 minutes or 20 minutes of access a day and see how well their monitor FSD.
What they should be testing is how well people monitor FSD, not if they are a grandma returning home from church on a Sunday.
Might be time to consider clicking the opt-out button if this is affecting you to such an extent. I don’t mean that as snark. Maybe wait for the general release rather than be part of the early release beta. There will be loads of FOMO you will have to deal with but maybe a few wide open throttle blasts will provide the right catharsis.
Signing out from the menu that drops from your profile icon and signing back in should do it.
I suspect the pain is not over either. We’re going to fret over getting a good score and then for whatever reason not be in the first wave. Then we’ll have to read & see all the people whom got it and continue to fret over our scores…. I sort on wonder if they’ve thought this through. It seems like they have to very liberal with distribution or people (their customers) are going to get upset.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
Yeah, a little confusing.
You can get penalized up to 22 points for hard braking (7.4% max of braking time) , 6 points for aggressive cornering (17% of the cornering time), or just ~1 point for unsafe following (60% of the following time).
And of course combinations of these factors multiply together and can make things much worse than the individual components (they do not add). (For example unsafe following at 60% hurts your score by 3, rather than 1, if you’re already at 7.4% braking.). Not that it matters really at those levels. The better the scores, the closer they are to essentially being additive, I think.
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DCEV
Member
Yup, maybe the solution is to opt out and enjoy a couple of Ludicrous launches and just enjoy driving my car.
But I know this will never come out beta in the foreseeable future. Not even the rain sensing wipers have come out of beta in 3 years. I would like what paid for, knowing what I paid for will be in beta essentially forever.
Just really feeling resentful and sick of this BS "test" criteria that have little to do with safety or your ability to monitor FSD Beta after waiting 3 years and paying for FSD.
If what they were testing had anything to do with safely monitoring being able to monitor FSD Beta I would have ZERO concerns about that. Heck what they monitor has very little to do with actually safely driving the car because it totally lacks any context for the actions.
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Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Not entirely sure what you mean by masked here?
My expectation is if the car does something wrong when using AP "properly" you don't get penalized because that's teslas fault (AP needs improvement).
If the car does something wrong when using AP "improperly" you DO, because that's the drivers fault for turning it on someplace they shouldn't.
This is pretty clear for autosteer (what most would call "full" AP)- you don't use it if it's not a divided limited access freeway if you wanna stick to proper use.
What we don't know is when they're saying they only ignore events "on autopilot" do they mean when both TACC and AS are engaged (double press down on a 3 for example)? If so, then misbehavior on TACC alone would count against you even if using it "properly"
But if they count TACC alone as AP, then it wouldn't.
So everyone gets the engineering version until they cause an accident or some other event that gets them booted out? Sounds like a recipe for a lot of adverse events. For reference, zero accidents have been ascribed to FSD 10 Beta testing in the last year.
If you don't click the button, you still have the same access to FSD you did last week.
If you click the button and end up with a low score (which hasn't even been shown that you would), you still have the same access to FSD you did last week.
If you click the button and get a good enough safety score, you may get access to the fresh unproven version(s) of FSD to monitor it.
General releases still go out to all.
Launches don't hurt your score, only braking and cornering G's do.
Coming home late last night a kid with his brand new Civic SiR revved on me and baited me to race him on the freeway but I just put in my request for the FSD Beta earlier in the day and didn’t want to hurt my score! I was so tempted too. Checked my score this morning, on my way ,6 more days of chill driving is what I keep reminding myself!
Omg - The wipers! I wish I could pin the wiper UI to stay on the screen in rainy weather. I also wish they’re retain the NN to look at speed as an input to when to run the wipers. We should start a public driver Safety Score of some of these great features.
Tried logging out and back in a few times - no score
Frustrating.
AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I’m not sure why it’s unclear what I mean by masked, from context here. Events can happen in AP. They either are masked from the Safety Score or not. The question is: when are they masked during AP use? It does seem Tesla requires AP to be “appropriately utilized.”
We still don’t know what the situation is for the Safety Score - but this requirement could explain the conflicting reports. It would be nice to know (and is really all I care about).
It seems like unnecessary semantic pedantry to me to say that penalizing people for events that occur when AP is not appropriately utilized is anything other than…penalizing for inappropriate AP use. I understand it is penalizing for the consequences of that action, not penalizing the action itself.
But I don’t care about that argument. I just want to know when/if AP events are counted in the Safety Score. (And yes it would be good to know the answer about TACC/Autosteer as well. I would assume that if “appropriately utilized,” TACC would mask hard braking and unsafe following. But no idea.)
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AlanSubie4Life
Efficiency Obsessed Member
I assume you were not using Autosteer or TACC? (Though the answer would not help really definitively answer the question about masking of these events.)
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