RI National Grid - "System needs to be reduce or Pay 5.5k pad mount tansformer"

[Rebel]

45 Panels, 2x Powerwalls 2x Powerwall+
Was wondering where my PTO was - installed back Sept 28, 2021 got a text / email that this was subimitted for PTO and waiting for next steps a few months ago.
Tesla sized my house correctly but they never put in the paperwork to actually to Natoinal Grid for approval before they did the install.
Basically the decided to go forward and install everything before putting in the paperwork besides the permit paperwork of course.

Went to the ngforce portal and saw my case that was submitted by tesla and this was there latest update.
Not sure what they are going to do next here, havent contacted Tesla yet.
Shall be interesting.

 

[jjrandorin]

If I were you, I would contact tesla requesting a status update on your PTO, but I dont think I would tell them I had already contacted the utility about it. I would just be pushing for a status update on my PTO from tesla.

Reason being, I would want them to figure it out, and then know they had to tell me about this fee (and the resultant "stink" any customer would likely put up for this) vs them thinking "oh, they already know about the fee, lets just bill them for it".

No idea how it will go, and who actually is responsible, but I think there is a chance tesla comes back and tells you the same thing and asks you to decide (whether to pay or reduce system size) or them covering it, or them pushing back against the utility. I simply dont know, but I certainly wouldnt want tesla to think "they already know about the upcharge, so lets just send them an invoice".

Thats just how I would handle it though, I am not a lawyer, etc.

 

[aesculus]

Not sure what they are going to do next here, havent contacted Tesla yet.
Shall be interesting.

I wonder if the GW can be configured to monitor the export kW and start cycling off panels to keep it under 19 kW? That would be the best of worlds for you.

 

[Rebel]

If I were you, I would contact tesla requesting a status update on your PTO, but I dont think I would tell them I had already contacted the utility about it. I would just be pushing for a status update on my PTO from tesla.

Reason being, I would want them to figure it out, and then know they had to tell me about this fee (and the resultant "stink" any customer would likely put up for this) vs them thinking "oh, they already know about the fee, lets just bill them for it".

No idea how it will go, and who actually is responsible, but I think there is a chance tesla comes back and tells you the same thing and asks you to decide (whether to pay or reduce system size) or them covering it, or them pushing back against the utility. I simply dont know, but I certainly wouldnt want tesla to think "they already know about the upcharge, so lets just send them an invoice".

Thats just how I would handle it though, I am not a lawyer, etc.

Thanks for the suggestion think I’ll give them a call Monday see what the say

 

[Rebel]

I wonder if the GW can be configured to monitor the export kW and start cycling off panels to keep it under 19 kW? That would be the best of worlds for you.

You can limit the export on the powerwall + inverters on the setup wizard maybe this is what they might do but as a customer you can go in as a installer and override it

 

[jrweiss98020]

I would hope the contract specifies that Tesla would have gotten all appropriate permits before the install. Since Tesla did the specification, their "experts" should bear the cost of the connection and PTO to suit the installation (i.e., Tesla should pay for the transformer upgrade).

 

[h2ofun]

I would hope the contract specifies that Tesla would have gotten all appropriate permits before the install. Since Tesla did the specification, their "experts" should bear the cost of the connection and PTO to suit the installation (i.e., Tesla should pay for the transformer upgrade).

My installers stated that if when they submitted for approval, my panels would not be approved, they would just remove everything at their cost.

 

[slcasner]

Each Powerwall+ PV inverter is rated 7.6kW max, so two of them would produce 15.2kW max, which is less than 19kW. When you hit peak sun in the summer the inverters will just clip. So unless you have some other PV inverter(s) in the system, you can't send more than that to the grid (since Tesla does not allow grid export from the batteries). So how was the system size calculated? If it is just a gross theoretical size, I wonder if NG could be convinced to accept an actual system size calculation.

 

[craigcabrey]

Each Powerwall+ PV inverter is rated 7.6kW max, so two of them would produce 15.2kW max, which is less than 19kW. When you hit peak sun in the summer the inverters will just clip. So unless you have some other PV inverter(s) in the system, you can't send more than that to the grid (since Tesla does not allow grid export from the batteries). So how was the system size calculated? If it is just a gross theoretical size, I wonder if NG could be convinced to accept an actual system size calculation.

This. AC sizing is truly what matters. The utility even references that in the email, so probably just a miss communication.

If anything, I would get Tesla to add one more 3.8 kW inverter. Your current ac/dc ratio is absurdly high right now.

 

[dareed1]

Each Powerwall+ PV inverter is rated 7.6kW max, so two of them would produce 15.2kW max, which is less than 19kW. When you hit peak sun in the summer the inverters will just clip. So unless you have some other PV inverter(s) in the system, you can't send more than that to the grid (since Tesla does not allow grid export from the batteries). So how was the system size calculated? If it is just a gross theoretical size, I wonder if NG could be convinced to accept an actual system size calculation.

I suppose that the utility is assuming the inverters can provide 15.2kW from the panels, and additionally the Powerwalls can supply 10kW. Together that's the mentioned 25.2kW. The PWs are capable of supplying power to the grid, even though Tesla doesn't ordinarily allow them to run that way. The utility should plan for worst case.

 

[zƬesla]

My utility adds up the PW output + the PV capacity to determine whether we fall within the transformer limit. The original plan was for 17.5kW in PV (14.7kW inverter capacity), so they were going to upgrade the old transformer to 25kW. Before the transformer was installed, we added 2 PWs to the plan and they ok'd it but kept the transformer to 25kW. After installation and PTO, when a third PW was added, they grumbled and said the only way they would allow it is if we do not sign up for Demand Response (ConnectedSolutions). We had to pay for the original transformer upgrade, which apparently they do not charge for based on size, so had we known up front we'd need 3 PWs (long story), we could be shortening our solar ROI. Now in order to sign up for Demand Response we would need to pay for another transformer upgrade, which I may yet do, but of course they aren't taking any sign ups currently anyway.

 

[holeydonut]

My installers stated that if when they submitted for approval, my panels would not be approved, they would just remove everything at their cost.

Your installer also seems to have paid some massive "facilitation fees" (formerly known as bribes) to PG&E since you had like the easiest install ever with the largest SGIP I've ever seen.

PG&E was crapping on people who wanted one PW under SGIP, and you somehow got 5? No NEM2-MT? Sizing well over their 110% limit?

 

[h2ofun]

Your installer also seems to have paid some massive "facilitation fees" (formerly known as bribes) to PG&E since you had like the easiest install ever with the largest SGIP I've ever seen.

PG&E was crapping on people who wanted one PW under SGIP, and you somehow got 5? No NEM2-MT? Sizing well over their 110% limit?

I guess they liked me

 

[BGbreeder]

I fence sat for awhile on this one.

Maybe it is just me, but if I hire a ______ (contractor / solar installer / CPA / attorney...), after checking that they are actually one, I expect them to do the job that they contracted to do and own their own errors. The OP (@Rebel ) was quoted, and (I assume) paid for, an operational 25.2kW system.

How is the fact that the contractor failed follow the regulations to check with the utility and get permission prior to construction @Rebel's doing? Because the OP hired a contractor known for doing first and asking for permission later? (Powerwall+ installations in a number of jurisdictions leaps to my mind...) That sounds an awful lot like "don't use Tesla as a contractor".

I do not know how your local arbitrators view contractors not following the regulations, but I believe that it is generally it is frowned upon...

I would lean on Tesla to cough up the transformer fee. Had they bothered to check, they would have known about it.

YMMV...

BG

 

[Rebel]

Each Powerwall+ PV inverter is rated 7.6kW max, so two of them would produce 15.2kW max, which is less than 19kW. When you hit peak sun in the summer the inverters will just clip. So unless you have some other PV inverter(s) in the system, you can't send more than that to the grid (since Tesla does not allow grid export from the batteries). So how was the system size calculated? If it is just a gross theoretical size, I wonder if NG could be convinced to accept an actual system size calculation.

Right so my system was sized for 15.2KW here is what they did with the caluclations
Most of my panels are North face vs South facing thus the calucation.

 

[Rebel]

I fence sat for awhile on this one.

Maybe it is just me, but if I hire a ______ (contractor / solar installer / CPA / attorney...), after checking that they are actually one, I expect them to do the job that they contracted to do and own their own errors. The OP (@Rebel ) was quoted, and (I assume) paid for, an operational 25.2kW system.

How is the fact that the contractor failed follow the regulations to check with the utility and get permission prior to construction @Rebel's doing? Because the OP hired a contractor known for doing first and asking for permission later? (Powerwall+ installations in a number of jurisdictions leaps to my mind...) That sounds an awful lot like "don't use Tesla as a contractor".

I do not know how your local arbitrators view contractors not following the regulations, but I believe that it is generally it is frowned upon...

I would lean on Tesla to cough up the transformer fee. Had they bothered to check, they would have known about it.

YMMV...

BG

Your not wrong here if you look at my previous posting here. Before they even did the install they said that the had the relationship with National Grid and was confident to move forward without the paperwork with the Utility Company they figured they just install everything first then submit the paperwork for approval to the utility company instead of filing the paperwork with the permits. Laziness on there part instead all they did was the permit paperwork skipped out on filing with the uiltiy because they had a "relationship" and went ahead with the install and now we are stuck in this situation.

Quick update I did call yesterday and they stated that they are just waiting for the utility company to respond about the sizing tells me that they haven't even updated there notes to what National Grid responded back with. At this rate I'm running self-consumpion mode which is fine but I will be losing out on the connected solutions paycheck at this rate for the end of the year. *sigh*

 

[Rebel]

My utility adds up the PW output + the PV capacity to determine whether we fall within the transformer limit. The original plan was for 17.5kW in PV (14.7kW inverter capacity), so they were going to upgrade the old transformer to 25kW. Before the transformer was installed, we added 2 PWs to the plan and they ok'd it but kept the transformer to 25kW. After installation and PTO, when a third PW was added, they grumbled and said the only way they would allow it is if we do not sign up for Demand Response (ConnectedSolutions). We had to pay for the original transformer upgrade, which apparently they do not charge for based on size, so had we known up front we'd need 3 PWs (long story), we could be shortening our solar ROI. Now in order to sign up for Demand Response we would need to pay for another transformer upgrade, which I may yet do, but of course they aren't taking any sign ups currently anyway.

I'm assuming this is Eversource since they offer the connectedsolutions as well.

There are also about 6 other houses on my street that have solar panels no powerwalls since people signed up for the door to door sales man and contributed to the size and why I am running into issues now.

 

[zƬesla]

I'm assuming this is Eversource since they offer the connectedsolutions as well.

The one and only. When I talked to them, they said PUC wasn't allowing sign ups. When I talked to PUC, they said it was an Eversource decision.

I only share a transformer with two others houses, neither with solar. It would actually be helpful if one of them got it as then the transformer would require an(other) upgrade regardless.

 

[appleguru]

I wonder if the GW can be configured to monitor the export kW and start cycling off panels to keep it under 19 kW? That would be the best of worlds for you.

I was able to convince Eversource to accept interconnection with exactly this proposal. Tesla added a note to my plans like this:

And configured “conductor export limits” in the gateway to limit the current that could be exported to the grid per the utility’s requirements.

In your case, you want them to set the limit at 79A.

 

[SummitX]

Rebel, can you update us on what happened? Did Tesla cover the cost of transformer upgrade? Did you? Or did they reduce the size of your system?