I don't believe Tesla even substitutes packs except in exceptional circumstances. As I understand it, any failures that don't involve portions of the cells themselves result in a temporary loaner pack while your own pack gets fixed and returned.
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I don't believe Tesla even substitutes packs except in exceptional circumstances. As I understand it, any failures that don't involve portions of the cells themselves result in a temporary loaner pack while your own pack gets fixed and returned.
roblab
Active Member
a few thoughts:
So when they get ready to give me a B pack, everyone else will be getting M and N packs, right?
Imagine complaining about ONLY getting 87 kW at the chargers while so many people are VERY anxious to get a ChaDeMo charger cable so they can charge at 50 kW! And the main comment there is that it's because so many of the SCs are ICEd. I've never been ICEd.
Yeah, I agree! Don't make me give up my A pack until I can get a really sweet deal on a new 110 kWh pack!!!!
So when they get ready to give me a B pack, everyone else will be getting M and N packs, right?
Imagine complaining about ONLY getting 87 kW at the chargers while so many people are VERY anxious to get a ChaDeMo charger cable so they can charge at 50 kW! And the main comment there is that it's because so many of the SCs are ICEd. I've never been ICEd.
Yeah, I agree! Don't make me give up my A pack until I can get a really sweet deal on a new 110 kWh pack!!!!
You do realize that that's going to be a long time from now right? And by that point I'd rather just trade up to the new model.
Just give me a darn B now and in 8 years or so I'll reward Tesla and buy a fancy new car with a 100 kWh pack that charges at 200 kW.
Thats the current policy. Wasn't always the case.
My theory about your data is that the ongoing ever so slight decrease in supercharge rate is due to battery degradation and not software version. The charging rate seems to go down from 90kw a few percent just as the capacity has gone down a few percent.
Comments?
IMO, effects from degradation should not be reflected in data that is based on %SOC. For instance, whether your pack is 1 day old or 10 years old, it should take the same amount of time to go from 10% to 80% at a SpC. After all, the taper curve software contained in the BMS is governed by SOC (and ambient conditions, but that's beside the point).
Now, if the SpC rate was based miles per hour or had I been reporting rated range in my data then I could see the degradation argument coming into play.
Edit: No I now believe my analogy was incorrect. For the ten year old pack a percent would represent less energy. However, I still maintain that the taper curve would look exactly the same when plotted against SOC.
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That would only be true if the pack's internal resistance stayed the same as it aged, but unfortunately as lithium batteries age and lose capacity, their internal resistance also gets higher which will further limit how quickly you can recharge the pack compared to when it was new.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Of course with less capacity you have less energy going into the pack, so less time needed to fill it. The question is does internal resistance increase faster than the capacity loss, or at the same rate?
They no longer replace it with a refurbished or new pack. Tesla changed to an approach that, basically, your battery pack is your battery pack forever. If you have a non-cell-related problem with the pack, you can use a loaner pack while your pack is sent to be repaired, then yours will be re-installed when it is repaired.
I think Tesla had to do this for a couple of reasons. The first is that the early contactor failures were creating too many refurbished packs after new packs were installed in cars and the old ones were sent back to be reworked - they can't be installed in new cars, so they'd have a glut of refurbished battery packs. The second is that there were some people whose "newly refurbished" packs had a lower range predicted by the car than their old pack. By going this route, Tesla has essentially made the battery pack the center of the car (as it seemingly should be).
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
I have no idea why. I've posted about it when it happened, but my 85kWh pack suddenly started losing capacity over the course of a few weeks. By the time I made my trip from the Bay Area to Southern California in December, 100% charge was barely above 200 miles of rated range. On the return trip home, it refused to charge at the Supercharger. As soon as I plugged-in, it said "charge complete". They said the battery pack failed, and I got a loaner to drive back and they shipped the car with loaner-pack to me a week later, but it's been over 5 weeks now and still no word.
islandbayy
Active Member
I like this approach better. I wouldn't mind getting my original 60kWh A pack back (Equivelent to a 85kWh B pack without 90kW charge rate limit). While it had less range then my current pack had when installed, my current pack is dropping range much quicker then my original pack did.
Enjoy placing your degradation on the loaner pack while yours is re-worked. Always look on the bright side.
Was not aware of new policy that "your pack is your pack". Has interesting implications re: swapping. Hints that "loaner" swapping is probably the only way it can work, which renders it useless for any large scale deployment.
Personally, though I'm still annoyed by the charging restriction and would definitely upgrade my A to a NEW pack when larger energy density becomes available... I've gotten to know my battery and I think I got a good one... would not want to permanently swap it for unknown refurbished due to either service or swapping station.
Personally, though I'm still annoyed by the charging restriction and would definitely upgrade my A to a NEW pack when larger energy density becomes available... I've gotten to know my battery and I think I got a good one... would not want to permanently swap it for unknown refurbished due to either service or swapping station.
Noticed this new thread about reported 60kw supercharging experiences.
The wicked part of me spun a fantasy: What if Tesla Motors found through logs that B and later batteries had issues charging over 60kW in some circumstances, and implemented limits in those circumstances. Leaving A pack owners the only ones who can consistently charge at 90kW peak? And then all those thousands of B+ pack owners who thought the 90kW limit no big deal were suddenly stewing about the injustice of an occasional 30kW charge deficiency? Of course, I would not wish this on anyone... but it's interesting to see how others react to charge limitations when they are among the affected!!!! Many of the same who said we were over-reacting.
Now, I know someone is going to chime in saying I got some facts wrong here... for them please re-read the word above: FANTASY!
The wicked part of me spun a fantasy: What if Tesla Motors found through logs that B and later batteries had issues charging over 60kW in some circumstances, and implemented limits in those circumstances. Leaving A pack owners the only ones who can consistently charge at 90kW peak? And then all those thousands of B+ pack owners who thought the 90kW limit no big deal were suddenly stewing about the injustice of an occasional 30kW charge deficiency? Of course, I would not wish this on anyone... but it's interesting to see how others react to charge limitations when they are among the affected!!!! Many of the same who said we were over-reacting.
Now, I know someone is going to chime in saying I got some facts wrong here... for them please re-read the word above: FANTASY!
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
Haha Tomas, I was musing along similar lines, wondering if this was a hardware-related (and perhaps temporary) limitation (if in fact it is a real limitation).
gg_got_a_tesla
Model S: VIN 65513, Model 3: VIN 1913
ken830
Model S 85, Model 3 Performance, Model X LongRange
Gosh, I hope not... First, I have an A-pack with 90kW limit... Now that my A-pack failed, and I'm on a loaner B-pack, I'm screwed again with 60kW charging?!
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