Thanks, yea, but this was extra funky. The installer confirmed a balance issue yesterday and things seem better now. Hopefully that's it.
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New tires, now 'crabbing" and lower efficiency
- Thread starter efusco
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- Driving Dynamics Model S
Thanks, yea, but this was extra funky. The installer confirmed a balance issue yesterday and things seem better now. Hopefully that's it.
Ok, over 1000 miles, rebalanced, pressure pumped up...still getting 380-420 Wh/mi where I used to see 280-320 Wh/mi, even Dec. 2012-Mar 2013 I averaged 320 Wh/mi. The subtle wobble sensation persists and I think there's a bit of oversteer, but I don't really have enough experience with that sort of lingo and performance handling to be sure.
Service contacted and they're coming for the car next week.
Service contacted and they're coming for the car next week.
Al Sherman
It's about THIS car.
I had my car in to rotate the tires today, my 21s, and ended up talking about new tires and could I have the SC install them if I shipped and such. That's apparently not a cut and dried issue, but that's a tangent.
The on topic point is they said they definitely wouldn't install non-Tesla approved tires. E.g., no Hankooks. He noted they've had some real troubles. A guy had Toyo's put on his P85 and it went squirrely every time he punched it. Someone else put another brand, don't recall which, and had really bad road noise and ended up replacing with the Continentals.
Not sure what to make of all that. I've never had a car that seemed to be so picky about tire brand.
The on topic point is they said they definitely wouldn't install non-Tesla approved tires. E.g., no Hankooks. He noted they've had some real troubles. A guy had Toyo's put on his P85 and it went squirrely every time he punched it. Someone else put another brand, don't recall which, and had really bad road noise and ended up replacing with the Continentals.
Not sure what to make of all that. I've never had a car that seemed to be so picky about tire brand.
I got changed from 4.5 to 5.6 a couple days after the new tires were put on, then 5.8 a week or so later.
I doubt it's related to firmware, but it is a confounder for this.
I have, thought I'd try it out just for grins, mostly to see if the regen behavior changed as many reported (it didn't). Efficiency is still bad and I'm 99% convinced it's the alignment or something with the wheel/tire balance. I do see better numbers when the temps are in the low 50s (as they have in the past couple days), but still more in the 320-340 Wh/mi range instead of my usual 280-300 range that I'd expect. There's a definite "bounce" or "wobble" feel that is particularly noticable at lower speeds and the car just feels heavier as if there is increased drag. Service comes for it on Tuesday with hopes of getting it back to me by Wednesday so hopefully I'll have some answers then.
I should have been more clear in my post. I'm on 5.6, similar range discrepancy, no tire issue. I think the range change since last cold season is software. I also changed tires- from 21 conti to 20 Pirelli all season. Zero issue.
Another partial update...
Tesla Ranger showed up at my front door at 7:30am today to get the car. Got a call around 3:30pm this afternoon asking for more detail about the behavior (wobbling, etc.). They said they'd already done the alignment and said "it wasn't out much" from the original alignment parameters, but they'd updated to the new parameters.
They said they were going to do a complete rebalance of the wheels/tires using their special "Hunter?" instrument since the wobble/crabbing that I feel is felt mostly at lower speeds thinking there may be something not quite right with the balance despite the fact that I had them rebalanced once already.
Not sure if they're also going to do my 25K maintenence...it's almost 3000 miles early, but I am not excited to send my car back up to St.Louis again in just 2 months.
Another oddity, their system did not show that I'd purchased the maintenence package with Ranger service...which is odd b/c I did the day it became available. They're checking into it.
Tesla Ranger showed up at my front door at 7:30am today to get the car. Got a call around 3:30pm this afternoon asking for more detail about the behavior (wobbling, etc.). They said they'd already done the alignment and said "it wasn't out much" from the original alignment parameters, but they'd updated to the new parameters.
They said they were going to do a complete rebalance of the wheels/tires using their special "Hunter?" instrument since the wobble/crabbing that I feel is felt mostly at lower speeds thinking there may be something not quite right with the balance despite the fact that I had them rebalanced once already.
Not sure if they're also going to do my 25K maintenence...it's almost 3000 miles early, but I am not excited to send my car back up to St.Louis again in just 2 months.
Another oddity, their system did not show that I'd purchased the maintenence package with Ranger service...which is odd b/c I did the day it became available. They're checking into it.
Partial update part deux-
Got a call from service at 7:55am (apparently they start bright and early every day!):
They checked the tire balance this morning--despite the fact that I'd gone back and had them rebalanced 2 weeks after initial install, Tesla service found that 3 out of 4 of the tires were out of balance including one that was a full 6 ounces out of balance! Gonna be darn hard to trust Sams Club going forward...maybe the other location in town does a better job.
they're going to do my 25K mile service now (just over 22K miles) to avoid a trip back in 2 months and should have the car back by this afternoon.
Got a call from service at 7:55am (apparently they start bright and early every day!):
They checked the tire balance this morning--despite the fact that I'd gone back and had them rebalanced 2 weeks after initial install, Tesla service found that 3 out of 4 of the tires were out of balance including one that was a full 6 ounces out of balance! Gonna be darn hard to trust Sams Club going forward...maybe the other location in town does a better job.
they're going to do my 25K mile service now (just over 22K miles) to avoid a trip back in 2 months and should have the car back by this afternoon.
Ask tire workers when they check the balance on their machine. If they don't say 'every day when we open' don't even bother to have them do a balance.
'Crabbing' is steering from the rear axle; car always goes down the road at a bit of an angle off straight. 'Torque steer' is when this happens during power-on/power-off. Both solved by doing proper alignment.
When I'm outside on a nice warm fall day messing with tires/wheels I put ~50 pounds in the MS tires - problem solved for the foreseeable future (unless you like to play your snows on curves).
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'Crabbing' is steering from the rear axle; car always goes down the road at a bit of an angle off straight. 'Torque steer' is when this happens during power-on/power-off. Both solved by doing proper alignment.
When I'm outside on a nice warm fall day messing with tires/wheels I put ~50 pounds in the MS tires - problem solved for the foreseeable future (unless you like to play your snows on curves).
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I called and spoke with the Sam's Club service supervisor. I got the impression that they have a monthly inspection of their equipment. To her credit she was cordial and seemed genuinely appreciative of the call (I was very polite, didn't ask for anything and didn't really present it as a complaint). She said she'd give a call to the company who does their work to have a calibration done.
The car is home, in my garage waiting for our early winter snow/ice storm event to strike tomorrow morning. I'll drive it to work in the morning and hope to report on the results shortly after.
I have my car back to normal again!! It certainly seems that it must've been the balance that was the issue. Temps were in the low 20s this morning and traffic was a bear (relative, but for my area it was bad) so my energy numbers were terrible still, but the car clearly feels right again.
Case Closed!
Case Closed!
goneskiian
Active Member
No S here but I always take my wheels to a local auto cross racer that has a tire mounting/balancing biz as a side job. I've done this ever since I had my tires installed at a local "tire" store and had a weight pop off in the first mile (they used the cheaper and easier to install pound on edge weights instead of the glue on variety) and even after going back the wheels still felt out of balance. My guy uses a Hunter balancing machine and takes great care in getting them balanced to as close to perfect as he can.
You can usually tell where the unbalanced wheel is depending on where you feel the vibration coming from. If it's in the steering wheel it's a front tire and if it feels like it's coming through your rear, well then it's probably a rear tire.
I'm going to guess this was a rear tire.
Happy to hear you got it worked out. Crazy that unbalanced tires had that much effect on you mileage though!
Cheers!
You can usually tell where the unbalanced wheel is depending on where you feel the vibration coming from. If it's in the steering wheel it's a front tire and if it feels like it's coming through your rear, well then it's probably a rear tire.
I'm going to guess this was a rear tire.
Happy to hear you got it worked out. Crazy that unbalanced tires had that much effect on you mileage though!
Cheers!
SAMs had used those old pound on ones, so it's possible they came off. Tesla specifically mentioned they used the glued on that are better.
goneskiian
Active Member
The glue on ones take longer to install and the wheel must be clean to use them. Too much work for some outfits apparently.
I see the pound on ones on the side of the road ALL the time when I'm out riding my bicycle.
Also, I've seen some pretty crazy out of alignment cars "crabbing" out on the road. The last was a pickup truck that the rear must have been about a foot to the side of the front. I find it hard to believe that's easy to control or safe for that matter.
Cheers!
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