Need some help figuring out my salvage model S

[eco5280]

I wish they would issue an actual recall, than my car would qualify.

Maybe, maybe not. Other companies will extend safety-related recalls to salvage vehicles but not all recall items. It's up to them, I don't think they're forced to work on salvage vehicles in every recall.

If you install a 85kw battery into a 60kw car, will the car realize its an 85kw battery?

No, it needs a software update to switch it over. This is discussed in the thread with the guy that got Tesla to upgrade his battery last year. They have different software because the 60kWh is limited to 60 fewer horsepower as "The smaller battery isn't safely able to deliver the necessary current to provide 362 hp." A software update fixes that. But good luck getting Tesla to do it to a salvaged car, right?

 

[zhur0002]

Guy's have spent about 6 hours on the alignment rack without any success. Car pulls to the right when producing more than 120kw under acceleration. Drives perfectly straight when coasting or under light acceleration. The all green picture had it how I first aligned it. The one with 0 toe for the rear is what I have it as now, feels the best, but far from right. Any suggestions?

 

[AnOutsider]

Can't really help, but my car used to be very similar. I don't know what ONE thing did it, but the SC changed out some bolts, did an alignment and some other suspension stuff. It's not perfect, but doesn't pull more than I can easily compensate for.

 

[zhur0002]

I'm sorry it pulls to the left, I need to turn steering wheel right to keep it going straight under acceleration.

 

[wk057]

@zhur0002 going to PM you some info that may or may not help.

 

[zhur0002]

Wk057 just studied the info that you gave me, that are the same spec's that the alignment machine had. So my initial alignment is correct. How does the differential work in the model S? Could it be that my right wheel is pushing harder than left making the front end go to the left? Never experienced this in a rwd car.

Put about 1500 miles on the car already tires seem not to have any access wear. Drove a 85 model s with coil suspension and when I accelerated it went always nice and straight. On my car my entire rear suspension leans to the right when floor it at 55mph.

 

[wk057]

I wonder if any of your auto leveling sensors are having issues... only other thing I can think of off the top of my head.

Seems odd that it would be consistent at above 120kW though.

 

[kennybobby]

Check the rear rubber bushings for wear

The lateral attachments of the control arms are made using rubber bushings, and as the bushings wear it will allow a fore-aft displacement of the rear wheel position. You will need to get the car on a lift and use a large pry bar to put a fore-aft load on the control arms and test the bushing joints for looseness.

Looking at the rear suspension from below, the shape of the lower control arms appears to have a forward cant. If the left side moves back, or the right side moves forward, it would cause the rear of the car to pull to the left.

My guess is that the smaller joints in the integral link at the front of the knuckle might be the first to wear,

but wear in the large bushings of the LCA at the chassis could also produce the symptoms you described.
Bottom view of LR LCA

Aft view of LR LCA

Good luck and report back what you find, kb

 

[zhur0002]

I would not call it consistent. Right at about 100-120kw it like a jab, like someone hit the car from the left side or pushed very hard on, to correct it you turn the wheel to the right about 8 deg and the car goes forward straight. When you let off the gas and have the steering wheel to right when power goes below 100-120kw it will jump back and steer where you are pointing the steering wheel.

We thought also that some of the bushings might have gotten tore, but everything seems like it should be on a 3k mile car. We even had car in the air with stability control off and in drive under load everything seemed to be staying in place.

I will try posting a youtube video of what it does.

Thanks

 

[W0QR]

I hope you realize how valuable your traumatic experience with this whole thing really is. This means that it's possible to fix a Tesla exService Center. You're paving the way to confidence in the viability of this technology. THANKS!

 

[kennybobby]

.... Right at about 100-120kw ...

We thought also that some of the bushings might have gotten tore, but everything seems like it should be on a 3k mile car. We even had car in the air with stability control off and in drive under load everything seemed to be staying in place

Remember at that power level and low speeds that the rear wheels are reacting about 1000 to 1500 lbs each against the asphalt, and that load has to be carried thru the suspension joints and bushings. So to test it you can't just run the motor on a lift as there is no reaction force to stress the joints.

That is why you need a 3 or 4 ft long pry bar and a block of wood to put force on the joints and bushings to observe how much deflection or looseness occurs. It could also be a loose fastener as i noticed there don't seem to be lockwashers used between the flat washer and nut. In any case a side load must be imposed on the joint to determine the integrity.

 

[neroden]

I am honestly thinking of starting a kickstarter project to completely reverse engineer the car creating repair manuals, and convert the OS to android and other open source software

Worth knowing: Tesla is already using large amounts of open source software.

Illegally.

There's already a legal case being started over it by some of the copyright holders. Tesla has hired a lawyer who is known for specializing in delay, so the case will probably take a while before Tesla inevitably loses.

So you should be able to use large hunks of Tesla's software unchanged, due to the fact that it's already open source and they're required by law to release it. (Or discountinue selling cars.)

so that others will not suffer the same problems as we salvage owners, and future non warranty cars WILL have.

You should do it.

I believe turning off a feature such as supercharging after my car was inspected and had 14,000 miles of supercharging post salvage is a violation of just about every doctrine of business I can think of. Plus it was on the original purchase papers as an option to the car. Can you imagine GM telling you you must return all options of your car the moment it becomes salvage. Yes return your V8 please, and the tires you purchased because now you are salvage. The arrogance of the company is ridiculous.

Yes, it is, and it's going to bite them in the ass.

----
Worthy of note: as a previous poster pointed out, the Massachusetts "right to repair" law requires that the manufacturer give independent repair shops the same information and tools which they give to franchised dealers. So it wouldn't be directly useful for Tesla owners.

However, this provides a potent political weapon for the dealerships in their fight to prevent direct sales by Tesla. See (the dealers can say), if franchises are required, people are guaranteed to have the tools to repair their car -- but if Tesla sells directly, they can just refuse to give you the tools to repair your car. This happens to be true.

If Tesla Motors execs are paying any attention whatsoever, they will quickly change their policy on independent repairs before the dealership association uses this potent weapon against them. (I am pretty sure that Tesla Motors execs are paying no attention whatsoever. They have been grossly incompetent when it comes to stuff like this.)

 

[NigelM]

Worth knowing: Tesla is already using large amounts of open source software.

Illegally.

There's already a legal case being started over it by some of the copyright holders. Tesla has hired a lawyer who is known for specializing in delay, so the case will probably take a while before Tesla inevitably loses.

So you should be able to use large hunks of Tesla's software unchanged, due to the fact that it's already open source and they're required by law to release it. (Or discountinue selling cars.)
...
You should do it.

You've been accusing Tesla of illegal activities for what 2.5 years now? And trying to encourage folks to start a legal case. Can you provide a link to this supposed legal case you're talking about?

 

[breser]

You've been accusing Tesla of illegal activities for what 2.5 years now? And trying to encourage folks to start a legal case. Can you provide a link to this supposed legal case you're talking about?

I think he's right about GPL violations, Tesla has no offer to provide the source (as required by the GPL) and we know they're using Linux. But those violations don't make all of their code open source as he suggests. But I'm also curious about the information on copyright holders seeking to enforce their copyright against Tesla.

 

[Gizmotoy]

I think he's right about GPL violations, Tesla has no offer to provide the source (as required by the GPL) and we know they're using Linux. But those violations don't make all of their code open source as he suggests. But I'm also curious about the information on copyright holders seeking to enforce their copyright against Tesla.

Right. I don't think there's any question that they're currently in violation of the GPL and are vulnerable to a lawsuit over it. The assertion that this would make the vehicle's source available to the public, though, is unfounded. It is entirely possible to protect propriety code when also using GPL-protected code. Beyond the fact that it's a little suspicious they haven't complied with the terms of the GPL this far into the production run, we have no reason to suspect their proprietary bits aren't properly protected.

 

[kennybobby]

Let's keep this on topic please--how about y'all delete or move all these legal mess posts to the firmware section that already has this discussion. Thanks, kb

 

[neroden]

I think he's right about GPL violations, Tesla has no offer to provide the source (as required by the GPL) and we know they're using Linux. But those violations don't make all of their code open source as he suggests.

I never said it was all open source, and it isn't. I just said that *large hunks of it* are.

But I'm also curious about the information on copyright holders seeking to enforce their copyright against Tesla.

After getting stonewalled by Tesla for months, I notified some of the copyright holders, and they started the process. :shrug: Last I heard, Tesla was being obstructionist, but still didn't have an actual defense.

I don't know why Tesla doesn't just do the right thing. I asked them for the source for the exact version and configuration of Linux they were using (just the version of Linux) back in 2013; they still haven't provided it.

My point in regards to devising your own service manual is that you shouldn't need to reinvent *everything*. Knowing some basic stuff like what version of Linux (, Busybox, SSH, etc) is running on each chip, and how it's configured (there are, like, 20,000 configuration options for compiling Linux), would go a substantial way towards being able to get at the diagnostics for your own car.

 

[breser]

My point in regards to devising your own service manual is that you shouldn't need to reinvent *everything*. Knowing some basic stuff like what version of Linux (, Busybox, SSH, etc) is running on each chip, and how it's configured (there are, like, 20,000 configuration options for compiling Linux), would go a substantial way towards being able to get at the diagnostics for your own car.

Come on now. The version and configuration options for the Linux kernel and SSH don't help that much in getting diagnostic information. SSH version probably doesn't help at all since SSH advertises version information when you connect and it's backward compatible anyway. I could see the Linux kernel information being helpful if you're trying to connect more hardware to the car due to knowing what hardware the system has drivers for. But we already know that Tesla has an Ethernet interface on the car that they've disabled.

I totally agree that you have every right to getting copies of the source of GPL code used in the Tesla and I agree that Tesla should provide it to you. But I think this has almost nothing to do with getting diagnostic information off this salvage Tesla. It's highly likely that their own code is running in user space under the kernel and thus isn't exposed to GPL. The best you could hope for would be some drivers to any unique hardware if they've been sloppy and actually implemented kernel drivers instead of putting everything in user space.

 

[AnOutsider]

Guys, the issue of Tesla and software rights has come up and been discussed numerous times in the past. Let's try to keep this on topic.

 

[breser]

Guys, the issue of Tesla and software rights has come up and been discussed numerous times in the past. Let's try to keep this on topic.

You realize that's what I said?