Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

Mustang Mach-E Gets Great Reviews = Model 3 Challenger

This site may earn commission on affiliate links.
true, the world of tesla pre model 3 was a very different world. service was far from perfect and while the early cars were problematic the service was capable of keeping up and in a timely manner. with hundreds of thousands of new model 3's on the road the entire system was overwhelmed and coupled with cutbacks on the customer service side life with a tesla that had issues became challenging. I've owned various teslas since 2013 and just sold my model 3. I am moving to a porsche taycan and expect the after sales experience to be better with the porsche. while the porsche tech is not up to tesla's level and the range is nowhere near the levels of the newer model S the interior and ride of the porsche is better.

Can you imagine how far a 1.5 billion investment would help Tesla's service organization, as opposed to Elon's latest ADD / ADHD obsession (Bitcoin).

The mobile ranger program worked quite well - thank you very much.

Some simple stupid math - in my estimation:

50K to hire + train a new mobile tech

Full-time employee 60K salary + benefits = about 90K a year

Put the rangers in an off-lease Tesla - just for argument's sake - between maintaining these vehicles and Tesla shouldering the continuing depreciation - vehicle cost 15K per year.

Again - simple stupid math - but 1st year costs to get 5,000 of these people up and running:

50 + 90 + 15 = 155K each (155,000) * (5,000) = 775M

So for about half the cost of one stupid coin toss into the Bitcoin well - Tesla could be well on its way to getting its service organization back into gear.

But nope - 2 weeks ago Bitcoin... this week Dogecoin... this is the future.
 
Can you imagine how far a 1.5 billion investment would help Tesla's service organization, as opposed to Elon's latest ADD / ADHD obsession (Bitcoin).

The mobile ranger program worked quite well - thank you very much.

Some simple stupid math - in my estimation:

50K to hire + train a new mobile tech

Full-time employee 60K salary + benefits = about 90K a year

Put the rangers in an off-lease Tesla - just for argument's sake - between maintaining these vehicles and Tesla shouldering the continuing depreciation - vehicle cost 15K per year.

Again - simple stupid math - but 1st year costs to get 5,000 of these people up and running:

50 + 90 + 15 = 155K each (155,000) * (5,000) = 775M

So for about half the cost of one stupid coin toss into the Bitcoin well - Tesla could be well on its way to getting its service organization back into gear.

But nope - 2 weeks ago Bitcoin... this week Dogecoin... this is the future.

Ehhh... It seems the lack of liquidity is not an impediment for investment for Tesla. They could design a car that runs on cash, but that would be environmentally unfriendly. Also, investment into cryptocurrencies is a one-time expense that can be potentially returned quickly into free cash while investment into personnel is a recurring expense that means 775M will multiply every year. There maybe another reason to buy cryptocurrencies for companies if they want to move big amounts of cash from one country/currency to another.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zextraterrestrial
I just entered the market for my first EV, and I wanted the ride height and room of a crossover. So I looked at the Tesla MY and the Ford MME. Read a lot about them, watched videos, test drove them both. Ordered the MME Premium Extended AWD. My high-level comparison:

I get that people love the Tesla software ecosystem, kind of like people are committed to iPhones for same reason. I keep buying iPhones for same reason, so I can relate. But I have no such connection to Tesla so I just didn’t consider it a big advantage. Both interfaces were good, best I could tell. Didn’t really care about the horizontal versus vertical screen, but I DID like having the second driver’s screen on the MME. I also liked having a few more physical buttons. Nearly everything in the MME’s interior feels well thought out. The MY was jarringly minimalist.

Exterior: MME hands down. Not really a question here. And I wanted to drive a head-turner. The MY just looks blobby and awkward - like they took a Model 3 wheelbase and gave it a higher roofline. Which they did.

Price: Again, MME wins by around $4-5k thanks to the $7500 tax credit plus Ford X-Plan pricing plus possible financing incentives. I specifically compared the MME Premium Extended AWD versus the MYLR.

Range and Efficiency: Range appears to be basically the same. MY is more efficient but not enough to recoup the price premium even if I drove it for hundreds of thousands of miles.

The Ride: MY def had a little more pep to the acceleration. But it kinda felt like a kit car strapped to a big motor. The cabin is noisier and the ride is rougher because it is a much lighter vehicle. I thought the MME had a more refined cabin, was quieter, and had a smoother ride. Turning felt different but hard to deceive exactly how. The MY steering wheel was oddly small so that might have been the difference.

Charging: didn’t actually try it, but based on what I’ve read Tesla is way ahead here. Neither of these cars is great for road trips, but the taking a long trip in a MME is basically out of the question right now. Tesla obviously gets the nod here. But I’d rather invest in what I consider to be the better hardware and gamble that the infrastructure will get better (I think it will).

So for the reasons above, I chose the MME. This was a frankly easy decision for me because I wasn’t already wedded to the Tesla brand. I think most people considering both options cold would probably reach the same conclusion.

I agree some of the first owners are finding problems, which is exactly why I only recently ordered. I think many of those kinks will be worked out by the time mine arrives... in another six months. Yup, that’s another Tesla advantage.

Anyway, bottom line is that I think the MY makes sense for people who already own a Tesla, but the MME seems to check a lot more boxes for those that are new to the EV market.
 
Welcome to the forum and your first post. Glad the MME is a good fit for you. You should probably keep up with the macheforum as the issues keep snowballing.

As you say, hopefully Ford can fix all these issue in the next few months. The ironic part is that forum for months was bashing Tesla about "roof blow off" and "I would never accept that for a 50k car". I think only 1 MY had a roof issue (still not good!). Now that the MME is having loads of serious issues (wont charge, dead, locked out, lost power at intersection), the crowd over there is "issue xyz is only a couple cars" or "we need to see how many people have this issue, it is rare" or "I guess I will have to settle for a car that needs the radio cranked up due to the high pitch noise from the screen". I do feel for those folks though that have waited since 2019!

Here is a user report about charging from today you might want to follow:

"I finished a 540 mile trip from Northwest Arkansas to home and tried used a quite a few chargers. Most of the chargers were only 50kw chargers maxing out at 48-49 sometimes only 30. Of course the weather decided not to cooperate with temperatures ranging from -5 to 25 F with snow, ice and freezing rain at times.

The worse part is during the charging, I would get a Charge Fault Error on the Mach E and I would have to restart the charging. I lost count of how many times I had to restart charging sessions. This is a major problem. If it continues, I will return the car. It is that bad."
 
  • Informative
  • Like
Reactions: outdoors and SO16
Yup, I knew about the DCFC issues going in. Not a big factor for me. But I think that will get significantly better in a year or two.

Also not highly concerned about other issues I’ve been reading “over there.” Some of it is simply the confirmation bias inherent in an online forum - its where people go for answers when they’ve got problems. Some of it is first gen teething. Some of it is that the first real flow of deliveries happened during an unusually bitter cold snap impacting much of the country.

But hey, if my car’s a lemon six month from now I’ll return it. Right now I’m just enjoying the reviews and thankful for all these beta testers.
 
Charging: didn’t actually try it, but based on what I’ve read Tesla is way ahead here. Neither of these cars is great for road trips, but the taking a long trip in a MME is basically out of the question right now. Tesla obviously gets the nod here. But I’d rather invest in what I consider to be the better hardware and gamble that the infrastructure will get better (I think it will).

Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I think the MME is an interesting first serious try by Ford, and it will find its buyers. Ford is probing customer response with this car and is not ready to go all in with volume production. If troubles, which almost everyone here has anticipated but Ford management totally ignored, continue to multiply then Ford may pull the Mach-E from the market next year instead of investing in fixing it. At only 20-25k vehicles in the US, Ford may simply ignore the customers. This is my current concern about the Mach-E. My animosity with Ford is because it seems they are spending more on advertising the Mach-E and how it is so much better than Tesla in every imaginable way than on engineering a better car.

Now, specifically on your "charging" statement. Tesla is the BEST car for road trips. I traveled with my family in a Camry for several years, then in an Acura MDX a lot. Last winter we took a round trip from Tulsa to San Diego in my Model 3 and I would NEVER ever again want to travel long distance again in anything else other than maybe another Tesla. It was the first time I was not morbidly tired after a long trip. Also, charging with Tesla for 25 minutes every 2+ hours of travel just perfect. If EA and Ford Mach-E can finally make it work at 100+kW and the Mach-E gets a preconditioning, it will be also good (for longer range Fords), BUT I would not gamble on that now when one can get a Model Y in a couple weeks.
 
Anyway, bottom line is that I think the MY makes sense for people who already own a Tesla, but the MME seems to check a lot more boxes for those that are new to the EV market.[/QUOTE]
the only flaw in your views is that the MME will and is showing severe teething problems. it will be some time until ford can sort things out.
I waited a year for buying my first tesla, and I just bought a taycan in it's second year and porsche is still struggling with tech issues
 
The idea that Ford is wasting money on advertising at the expense of engineering is a bit silly, IMHO. The recent ad buys indicate that Ford is investing heavily in the MME and further electrification.

The MME is getting generally great reviews and Ford is not going to dump it because of some early teething issues. They gave it the Mustang brand for a reason, and it sure wasn’t to sell a compliance car.
 
Now, specifically on your "charging" statement. Tesla is the BEST car for road trips. I traveled with my family in a Camry for several years, then in an Acura MDX a lot. Last winter we took a round trip from Tulsa to San Diego in my Model 3 and I would NEVER ever again want to travel long distance again in anything else other than maybe another Tesla. It was the first time I was not morbidly tired after a long trip. Also, charging with Tesla for 25 minutes every 2+ hours of travel just perfect. If EA and Ford Mach-E can finally make it work at 100+kW and the Mach-E gets a preconditioning, it will be also good (for longer range Fords), BUT I would not gamble on that now when one can get a Model Y in a couple weeks.

To each his own. Some people enjoy (much, much) more leisurely road trips.

I do think you might be fudging the “only had to stop 25mins every 2 hours” just a little bit - even with the vaunted Supercharger network. Two hours of highway speed is approaching the limit for an 80% charge, and 25mins to get back from near empty to 80% is optimistic. To maintain such range and recharge numbers consistently on a long road trip would require optimal conditions and a fortuitous string of Supercharger locations.

I’m not saying it can’t be done - I’m just saying it’s not nearly as fast as driving an ICE.
 
The idea that Ford is wasting money on advertising at the expense of engineering is a bit silly, IMHO. The recent ad buys indicate that Ford is investing heavily in the MME and further electrification.

The MME is getting generally great reviews and Ford is not going to dump it because of some early teething issues. They gave it the Mustang brand for a reason, and it sure wasn’t to sell a compliance car.

"In 2019, Ford Motors spent 2.28 billion U.S. dollars on advertising in the United States."
Globally, Ford's advertising expenditure exceeds 4 billion each year until at lease 2018 (have no info on last 2 years).
Ford R&D in 2019 was 7.1 billions.

50+% is not a silly amount of the R&D budget.
I get it that Ford wants to make an impression that it invests heavily in EV. That would be true if Ford said that Escape and/or Edge are completely replaced by the Mach-E starting next year. And then that there will be only electric version of F-150 in 2023. That would be a true investment in EV and not in PR campaigns. Not happening? In one old OEM lifecycle (by 2026-27) most people will be either driving or shopping for EVs. If Ford doesn't stop all new ICE R&D right now, it will be replaced completely by Tesla and VW.

OF COURSE the Mach-E getting great reviews! You know that Ford is a generous sponsor of many automotive publishers including GreenCarReports and TheCarConnection that gave it the crown of the best vehicle to buy even before anyone could actually buy it.
Also, Ford provides its pre-production version for reviews. Guess what, if I want to keep testing Ford cars and publishing reviews that I will be paid for, I'd better write a good review for Ford because next time they will not give me a pre-production tester. There are SO many examples when the best car of the Universe and everything in "journalist's" reviews turned out to be a total turd.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mark95476
To each his own. Some people enjoy (much, much) more leisurely road trips.

I do think you might be fudging the “only had to stop 25mins every 2 hours” just a little bit - even with the vaunted Supercharger network. Two hours of highway speed is approaching the limit for an 80% charge, and 25mins to get back from near empty to 80% is optimistic. To maintain such range and recharge numbers consistently on a long road trip would require optimal conditions and a fortuitous string of Supercharger locations.

I’m not saying it can’t be done - I’m just saying it’s not nearly as fast as driving an ICE.


I agree that many people don't travel much or often, and there is a niche for every car with every range.

I am not that much "fudging" on the charging time. I usually go about 70 mph on a highway, so it is about 140 miles in 2 hours. Nominally, according to the rated range, it is only 45% of my 310 rated range. Realistically, I was going at about 270 W/mi that is 37.8 kW for 140 miles, which is about 50-55% of the total range (75 kW battery). In cold/mountains/80mph etc. this can jump to about 60-65%. Charging from 20% to 80%. Charging at 100 kW gives 27 minutes. By the way, now we can charge at 200+kW though usually the speed decreases below 150 kW in several minutes.

Bottom line, if you drive a Tesla, charging is never a headache and it takes as much time as it usually takes you to eat a sandwich and visit a restroom.

And I wish Ford can achieve the same level of convenience. Maybe by spending more on engineering and less on ads.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dayreg
Was over reading that MME forum...it is almost a comedy of errors at this point. This is too funny:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...grabber-blue-first-edition-mach-e.3249/page-9

This poor guy had his hatch randomly open overnight in his garage (caught it on garage cam). He is understandable worried if his car is parked in the rain, parking lot, etc....his rear hatch decides to randomly open....just wow!!

I think I could go more that tit for tat trading Tesla QC anecdotes.... and Tesla has had a littttttle more time to iron things out by now. But do I feel good that my car won’t be built for several more months? Uh yeah. :) This is the bleeding edge, with cars being built at half-capacity with parts and labor shortages and who knows what other pandemic problems, delivered into the biggest sustained freeze in decades. Lol. I’m not blaming the cold per se, but I’m also glad I’m not testing out my new BEV at -20 degrees.
 
Was over reading that MME forum...it is almost a comedy of errors at this point. This is too funny:

https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...grabber-blue-first-edition-mach-e.3249/page-9

This poor guy had his hatch randomly open overnight in his garage (caught it on garage cam). He is understandable worried if his car is parked in the rain, parking lot, etc....his rear hatch decides to randomly open....just wow!!

I am VERY concerned about what happens when Mach-E gets into hands of thousands of regular users and not MachEForum enthusiasts. Ford is trying to appeal to more conservative less technocratic customers than Tesla owners. They may not give a $hit why their new $50k car is not connecting to their phones when the manual says it should, why it shows so low (estimated) range when they paid for 270 miles or so, why it charges at 35 kW when it is advertised to charge at 150 kW, etc. It seems more and more apparent that Ford has completely screwed up the Mach-E debut and nobody is reporting on that to caution the unaware general Ford customers heading to the dealer after watching yet another one ad by Ford claiming how awesome their Mach-E is.
 
I am VERY concerned about what happens when Mach-E gets into hands of thousands of regular users and not MachEForum enthusiasts. Ford is trying to appeal to more conservative less technocratic customers than Tesla owners. They may not give a $hit why their new $50k car is not connecting to their phones when the manual says it should, why it shows so low (estimated) range when they paid for 270 miles or so, why it charges at 35 kW when it is advertised to charge at 150 kW, etc. It seems more and more apparent that Ford has completely screwed up the Mach-E debut and nobody is reporting on that to caution the unaware general Ford customers heading to the dealer after watching yet another one ad by Ford claiming how awesome their Mach-E is.

I don’t think you’re concerned about this. :) I also think it might be a little condescending to assume that the MME’s market is more conservative less technocratic” oh who am I kidding that’s absolutely true. It’s a way sexier car and that’s gonna attract sexier people. But we’ll figure it out.
 
I don’t think you’re concerned about this. :) I also think it might be a little condescending to assume that the MME’s market is more conservative less technocratic” oh who am I kidding that’s absolutely true. It’s a way sexier car and that’s gonna attract sexier people. But we’ll figure it out.

I am concerned about this because when people have bad experience with a new EV they may tell their friends that EVs are not good, they are not for trips, not for bad weather, and fewer people will look at EVs (yes, including Tesla). My "conspiracy theory" was that Ford is intentionally going to screw up the Mach-E to give EVs bad reputation and claim no customer interest before killing the Mach-E. At that time I was questioning my own sanity ... but I am not so sure that's crazy anymore.

Regarding MME being for more conservative people you need to talk to Ford, that's how they positioned it, that it is a "normal" car with more traditional design (than, I guess, Tesla Model Y), traditional buttons, traditionally positioned instrument cluster, etc.

Personally, I don't like MME design (and engineering design) at all, and I could elaborate in detail if anyone is interested.