That can't be it completely. A smartphone will last 24 hours or more on lte and how many watt hours in that battery...
Edit: based on my stats 90% range would be depleted in 45 days. But 45 cellphone batteries isn't going to get me 450km of range.
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Model 3 Wh/km
- Thread starter McCaesar
- Start date
That can't be it completely. A smartphone will last 24 hours or more on lte and how many watt hours in that battery...
Edit: based on my stats 90% range would be depleted in 45 days. But 45 cellphone batteries isn't going to get me 450km of range.
pcons
M3 AWD+
Plus both my volts and wife's bolt can get an LTE signal through onstar (and the car can also be used as a hotspot to connect your phone to BTW...which the model 3 can't do).
@pcons can you turn the (volt/bolt) on via LTE? Or at least climate etc? Because if so then LTE itself is not the cause of the drain.
pcons
M3 AWD+
Yes, you can control it through the onstar app. Although the response isnt as fast as it is for the model 3, so perhaps there is some extra drain due to that....looking back at the numbers you posted from teslafi on the sleeping and idle drain I think its is actually starting to make a bit of sense at least....the power draws aren't really that crazy, and I guess the volt and bolt go into a complete deep sleep as soon as you shut them off, only to get woken up when you ping it through onstar (which is maybe why it takes so much longer to respond?).
Anywho....you mentioned the following range losses:
sleep: 0.487 km/h
idle: 1.67 km/h
Assuming teslafi calculates these with an assumed efficiency of 150 wh/km, its easy to convert these into a power draw, just multiply by that efficiency to get the power draw in watts:
0.487 * 150 = 73 W
1.67 * 150 = 250.5 W
So, what does this tell us? When the model 3 is off and idle it is consuming about 250W, which is actually a bit crazy considering if I monitor the volt when it is on and stopped at a light it would draw about the same. Haven't done the same on the bolt...but here's some fun comparisons of other household items that draw a similar amount of power:
Game console (a ps4 has a power rating of 250W, so it likely draws less in practice, but that's what's on the rating label)
Rice cooker ~ 250W (think of how much rice you could be making while your tesla is idle!
)Desktop computer ~ 450 W....so I guess it makes a bit of sense here since the model 3 is basically a computer on wheels
Iron ~ 1000W...this one is fun because it means leaving your tesla in idle for 10 hours is equivalent to leaving an iron on for 2.5 hours
Now, when its in sleep mode its admittedly not drawing much power at all. 70W is probably about what the seat heater in the model 3 draws at full power, but still it all adds up it seems over time....other small draw appliances:
Ceiling fan ~ 60W
Table fan ~ 15W
60W light bulb.....trick question....its 60W!
So, yeah. Putting it this way, in idle mode the model 3 is drawing about as much power as a 60W incandescent lightbulb. An LED bulb will be about 1/10 of that, so side note: change your light bulbs to LEDs!
After looking at it this way I am:
1) Less concerned about phantom drain in the model 3 since the idle draw does seem rather small
2) Even more curious why the volt/bolt draw virtually zero power when off, and why we can select an option for 'deep sleep' if for example you know you are going to be parked for a few days and not needing to communicate with the car....for example if you go on vacation and park at the airport. If you get to the airport with 100km of range even if the car is in sleep mode, you would stand to lose about 82km of range while sipping your umbrella drink on the beach...and people in a bolt wouldn't lose any range.
pcons
M3 AWD+
A bit more of an update on the above stuff. I mentioned previously that 3 days ago I charged 3 days ago and haven't plugged in since. I checked when I got home today and my battery is at 34%. Over the last 3 days I drove 182.1km and consumed 30 kWh according to the model 3. But (80%-34%)*75kwh = 34.5 kwh.....so that's a phantom loss of 4.5 kwh since tuesday at ~ 7am.
As an order of magnitude estimation I would say I have about 3 hours of driving over this time (~ 70 hours), so in about 67 hours the car was going through a mixture of idle and sleep mode. 4.5 kwh/67h = 67W power draw on average....so it seems that from this back of the envelope my phantom drain is in line with what @bijan has measured on his 3.....science is fun....but I still wish the drain was zero
As an order of magnitude estimation I would say I have about 3 hours of driving over this time (~ 70 hours), so in about 67 hours the car was going through a mixture of idle and sleep mode. 4.5 kwh/67h = 67W power draw on average....so it seems that from this back of the envelope my phantom drain is in line with what @bijan has measured on his 3.....science is fun....but I still wish the drain was zero
A bit more of an update on the above stuff. I mentioned previously that 3 days ago I charged 3 days ago and haven't plugged in since. I checked when I got home today and my battery is at 34%. Over the last 3 days I drove 182.1km and consumed 30 kWh according to the model 3. But (80%-34%)*75kwh = 34.5 kwh.....so that's a phantom loss of 4.5 kwh since tuesday at ~ 7am.
As an order of magnitude estimation I would say I have about 3 hours of driving over this time (~ 70 hours), so in about 67 hours the car was going through a mixture of idle and sleep mode. 4.5 kwh/67h = 67W power draw on average....so it seems that from this back of the envelope my phantom drain is in line with what @bijan has measured on his 3.....science is fun....but I still wish the drain was zero
this sounds about right. according tesla's manual, it's 1% loss a day, given the fact of large download and installation.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Here's an interesting stat I just noticed today while summing up my charges. Makes sense as there are charging losses and drain while parked. 96.2% efficiency from wall to wheel is pretty good (includes regen and drain).
pcons
M3 AWD+
What are you using to measure the kWh consumed from the wall? Also, how are you getting column P, which from the description looks like how much range loss you get from using brakes instead of regen as well as climate controls?
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
I lumped regen, drain, and power usage that didn't translate into a km on the odometer into the same column. kWh consumed from the meter at home relative to charge rate and time taken.
Blu-Ion
Member
You house meter? It would be higher than your charger draw, unless you can normalize the static standby overnight load and remove it from your draw
Maybe a clamp meter would provide a more accurate measure?
Maybe a clamp meter would provide a more accurate measure?
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Too lazy to install a meter on the charger line. Overnight the house uses minimal electricity and the bulk of it is the EV charging.
pcons
M3 AWD+
I'm surprised that the efficiency is so high. EVs are typically about 80% efficient from the wall to the wheels. I used to track this a lot in the early days. My open evse would report kwh used and for my 10.5 kwh volt gen 1 battery it would take between 12-13 kwh from the wall depending on if the thermal management system kicked in or not. My Gen 2 Volt was similar with around 16-17 kwh to fill a 14.1 kwh useable capacity. Model 3 should be more or less the same physics.
I'm actually charging now at 238v/30a = 7.14 kW. The charge to 90% will complete in about 4 1/2 hours so that will be 32.1 kwh from the wall. I'm at 53% battery, so 37% x 75 kwh = 27.75 kwh that will actually end up in the battery.
27.75 / 32.1 = 86.4% wall to wheel efficiency
That's actually a bit higher than I expected to be honest.....it isn't super quantitative, but does indicate to me the model 3 AC/DC conversion is pretty efficient.
But that doesn't explain why your estimate/measurements are about 10% higher...
Edit: wait, I just re caculated the efficiency of my volt and it is between 80-87%. So the model 3 is indeed similar from that comparison.
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
I'm pretty sure my numbers aren't exact but it shows a trend over time. So maybe it is 10% higher than it's suppose to be and the formulas I've put in place are wrong. I've been timing my charges to have a warm battery by 6AM so I'm losing less to drain?
Would take way more equipment and time to get an accurate reading
Would take way more equipment and time to get an accurate reading
pcons
M3 AWD+
Agreed. But its close enough for horseshoes and hand grenadesI'm pretty sure my numbers aren't exact but it shows a trend over time. So maybe it is 10% higher than it's suppose to be and the formulas I've put in place are wrong. I've been timing my charges to have a warm battery by 6AM so I'm losing less to drain?
Would take way more equipment and time to get an accurate reading
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Plenty of juice to run heaters and seats for daily commute. Only time I see an issue is on a road trip to the ski hill.
Correct. But this was a 185 mile round trip. If I did not top it to 100%, would have arrived home on fumes..... Still much better than my previous P85D, which would have forced me to drive well below 70 under same conditions.
Blu-Ion
Member
Can you speak metric when posting on Canadian forum
5_+JqckQttqck
Active Member
Can you speak metric when posting on Canadian forum
Translation
185 * 1.6 = 296km @ 350/1.6 = 218Wh/km (check 296*218 = ~64.75kW battery capacity).
218Wh/km is pretty good for cold weather!
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