Model 3 Canada

[Canuck]

Those that tell you AWD is a must should just slow down.

Those that tell you about "slowing down", being the key to driving with RWD in snow, show a surprising misunderstanding of the benefits of AWD. It's starting up, in snow and ice, with RWD that's the problem. Add to that a driveway or road that goes uphill and RWD gets the big fail. Slowing down doesn't help when the rear wheels are spinning and you're not moving at all.

You just need to be in a vehicle as often as I am when starting out on snow and ice and the rear wheels spin. In my Tahoe hybrid, I spin the dial from RWD to 4WD and off I go. In my RWD S, I get out, dig, sand and salt, and sometimes put on the chains to get it moving.

I've been through 4 winters with my S but I go inland from the wet-coast (pun intended) of BC that barely gets any significant snow.

Be careful who you listen to about AWD not being a must. That depends on where you drive -- not slowing down or other such nonsense. If you plan to go inland or to the mountains, skiing, etc. RWD makes a big difference and also gives you that all-important peace of mind of being able to move from a standstill. You can also avoid packing the shovel, chains and ice-melt.

 

[Canuck]

$80,000? For $80,000 you can have German cars with 450 hp, AWD and seat massagers.

Seriously? For that price, last century's technology would need to come with a time machine to get me to look at it.

It's also like telling the first ICE buyers you can get two real nice horses and a top of the line wooden buggy for the price of a Model T. We're simply not interested in that anymore. It's just too tough to go back.

 

[doubeld]

Umm... a loaded S4 for less than $70k CAD?

 

[Phillip L]

Those that tell you about "slowing down", being the key to driving with RWD in snow, show a surprising misunderstanding of the benefits of AWD. It's starting up, in snow and ice, with RWD that's the problem. Add to that a driveway or road that goes uphill and RWD gets the big fail. Slowing down doesn't help when the rear wheels are spinning and you're not moving at all.

You just need to be in a vehicle as often as I am when starting out on snow and ice and the rear wheels spin. In my Tahoe hybrid, I spin the dial from RWD to 4WD and off I go. In my RWD S, I get out, dig, sand and salt, and sometimes put on the chains to get it moving.

I've been through 4 winters with my S but I go inland from the wet-coast (pun intended) of BC that barely gets any significant snow.

Be careful who you listen to about AWD not being a must. That depends on where you drive -- not slowing down or other such nonsense. If you plan to go inland or to the mountains, skiing, etc. RWD makes a big difference and also gives you that all-important peace of mind of being able to move from a standstill. You can also avoid packing the shovel, chains and ice-melt.

The most applicable thing in your post is “depends on where you drive”.
You inadvertently supply the argument for most not needing AWD. Your situation is very specific. How many people have a driveway that goes uphill? I would venture less than 5%. How many people live in a mountainous area east of the Alberta/BC border? Even in BC, how many people live on the Wet Coast and don’t ski or go into the mountains in the winter, e.g. retirees in Victoria?
I think the argument that RWD with good snow tires is applicable for most Canadians is entirely valid.

 

[CadillacJack]

I drove my 550 hp RWD CTS-V in the winter for four years. It wasn’t my favourite compared to the AWD Subarus I had before it, but I could get anywhere I needed to (in Ontario). My P85’s traction control is 100 times better than the V.

I can count on one hand how many times each year AWD would make my drive easier. In the GTA, we don’t use winter tires for much more than a quarter of the year. I understand that other regions have other use cases, but here - AWD is optional if you get good snows.

Geez, wasn’t it just like 20 years ago everything was RWD or FWD?

 

[sakimano]

Name one real AWD German ICE for me. （must below 80K CAD).

Audi S4, S5, A6, A7, Q7, SQ5, Mercedes E43, BMW 550x...

 

[sakimano]

I drove my 550 hp RWD CTS-V in the winter for four years. It wasn’t my favourite compared to the AWD Subarus I had before it, but I could get anywhere I needed to (in Ontario). My P85’s traction control is 100 times better than the V.

I can count on one hand how many times each year AWD would make my drive easier. In the GTA, we don’t use winter tires for much more than a quarter of the year. I understand that other regions have other use cases, but here - AWD is optional if you get good snows.

Geez, wasn’t it just like 20 years ago everything was RWD or FWD?

Imagine how much more enjoyable your car would have been with AWD?

That's what I don't get. People buy these powerful torquey cars...then they can't put the power down but defend the rwd choice ad nauseum. For what? Stubbornness?

RWD is WORSE. End of discussion really. That's not up for debate.

The question is can you justify the $1000 or so net cost of awd to make your car faster, more range efficient, more fun and safer? Why the hell wouldn't you?

 

[Visscher]

Those that tell you about "slowing down", being the key to driving with RWD in snow, show a surprising misunderstanding of the benefits of AWD. It's starting up, in snow and ice, with RWD that's the problem. Add to that a driveway or road that goes uphill and RWD gets the big fail. Slowing down doesn't help when the rear wheels are spinning and you're not moving at all.

You just need to be in a vehicle as often as I am when starting out on snow and ice and the rear wheels spin. In my Tahoe hybrid, I spin the dial from RWD to 4WD and off I go. In my RWD S, I get out, dig, sand and salt, and sometimes put on the chains to get it moving.

I've been through 4 winters with my S but I go inland from the wet-coast (pun intended) of BC that barely gets any significant snow.

Be careful who you listen to about AWD not being a must. That depends on where you drive -- not slowing down or other such nonsense. If you plan to go inland or to the mountains, skiing, etc. RWD makes a big difference and also gives you that all-important peace of mind of being able to move from a standstill. You can also avoid packing the shovel, chains and ice-melt.

Our AWD Subaru is much better at speed on the HWY with 12" or less of snow, and our 4WD Tundra with diff locks is better when the snow is deep and we are driving slower. Big big difference between the two. The amazing thing with a Tesla is that it will power the front and rear equally during a launch, and then even shut off the rear motor when cruising on the highway. Or turn off the front if you are in range mode. They also have open diffs and use braking like the Subaru to control wheelspin. Which I like. I'm not going to take it mudding or hauling firewood out of the bush like I would the Tundra. Which all means that starting from a stop in AWD is where it shines, once you are on the highway it turns into RWD anyway. And once you live with the difference between 4WD and AWD you'll really appreciate what Tesla has built.

 

[sakimano]

The cost of fuel is considerable on big German luxo barges. Not to mention maintenance. Maintenance is a killer on anything German.

Tesla maintenance costs far more than my Audi or Range Rover maintenance. No idea what you're talking about. Maybe you've never owned a tesla?

Gas is about $12,500 for 4 years of ownership. Electricity at home over that period and similar distance would be about $1600. Difference is significant to be sure. Not end of the world and teslas tend to be priced with a significant premium.
. We are lucky in Ontario that the model 3 attracts the $14,000 subsidy. Otherwise it's not a financially better option. So I wouldn't argue financials in its case. Same for the model S. Without that $14,000 it financially doesn't really save you any money vs the Germans. Costs you money actually as the premium far exceeds comparable German vehicles and their fuel costs. Not saying this is the only reason people buy them. Just addressing your argument.

 

[sakimano]

Seriously? For that price, last century's technology would need to come with a time machine to get me to look at it.

It's also like telling the first ICE buyers you can get two real nice horses and a top of the line wooden buggy for the price of a Model T. We're simply not interested in that anymore. It's just too tough to go back.

Focus...i was addressing his claim that the Germans can't compete with model 3 pricing. You can't jump into a discussion and ignore context. Makes you look miopic. You don't want that.
Model 3 Canada

 

[kzod]

Wow. You guys are going at it like rabid political wonks. You are all right. Some people need Awd others can get away without it. But any claims that the dual motor option won't be better is silly. I'm in Toronto so I can live without awd, but i would buy it in a second if I could . I just don't want to wait and risk losing the rebate. Will handle most driving in our day to day lives a bit better than Rwd and occasionally will be huge.

 

[Hugh Mannity]

Imagine how much more enjoyable your car would have been with AWD?

That's what I don't get. People buy these powerful torquey cars...then they can't put the power down but defend the rwd choice ad nauseum. For what? Stubbornness?

RWD is WORSE. End of discussion really. That's not up for debate.

The question is can you justify the $1000 or so net cost of awd to make your car faster, more range efficient, more fun and safer? Why the hell wouldn't you?

Agree with these points; I personally never had AWD before the Model S simply because AWD ICE vehicles are fuel pigs compared to their FWD or RWD counterparts. I'm Canadian and have lived in 3 provinces, I've never "needed" AWD anywhere I've driven or lived; I suppose it would have been handy a couple days per year particularly in Calgary where they don't plough the side streets.

As you pointed out, a Tesla is available with AWD and you don't lose any efficiency; makes it a no brainer really if you don't mind the extra expense; unless your soul purpose is to be a drifter, (car wise not lifestyle wise )

 

[hingisfan]

If it was free, I would tick the box. I just can't justify the cost when I'm debating more important things (IMO) like battery upgrade and AP.

 

[Visscher]

I drove an hour to our ski hill this am. Here is what the road looked like. It is two lane in the summer. Not enough room for all the snow in the winter and now that spring is here we can pass on coming cars in places! And of course we no longer need Awd when the road is this good.

 

[Canuck]

You inadvertently supply the argument for most not needing AWD.

It wasn't inadvertent. I also was not arguing either side since there are no sides, only facts -- and I was just trying to give facts based on my 4 winters with a RWD S with the bottom line being it "depends on where you drive" (and not how you drive) as I said in my post.

Focus...i was addressing his claim that the Germans can't compete with model 3 pricing. You can't jump into a discussion and ignore context. Makes you look miopic. You don't want that.
Model 3 Canada

Yes, right, sorry. I hate when people do that to me.

 

[Canuck]

I drove an hour to our ski hill this am. Here is what the road looked like. It is two lane in the summer. Not enough room for all the snow in the winter and now that spring is here we can pass on coming cars in places! And of course we no longer need Awd when the road is this good.

Yikes! And I thought the road I drive in the winter, Coalmont Rd., was bad in the winter but that's definitely worse. What happens when someone comes the other way? That's where AWD is a must.

 

[Canuck]

My wife and kids keep telling me we don't need AWD since we have a Tahoe hybrid and I won't be taking the Model 3 over the mountain passes in the winter anyway (I try to say I will but they're probably right). Then I look at the price, which if I add AWD will exceed the $5k rebate ($77.5k) unless I pay for AP later if that will even work. They've almost convinced me to buy it now but with my luck the day after I buy AWD will come out. I've also gone this long with my RWD S (that I am keeping) and I can always park the 3 at the top of my driveway at my cabin when concerned about snow in the shoulder seasons like I do with the S. So I'm all ready to order.

Then I read this:

The amazing thing with a Tesla is that it will power the front and rear equally during a launch, and then even shut off the rear motor when cruising on the highway. Or turn off the front if you are in range mode. They also have open diffs and use braking like the Subaru to control wheelspin. Which I like. I'm not going to take it mudding or hauling firewood out of the bush like I would the Tundra. Which all means that starting from a stop in AWD is where it shines, once you are on the highway it turns into RWD anyway. And once you live with the difference between 4WD and AWD you'll really appreciate what Tesla has built.

And I think no way am I ordering now. Then I think about this summer with a Model 3 -- and how many summers do I have left (I'm 52 but still -- it's a new Tesla!). I'm going back and forth like a park swing here.

Decisions, decisions.

 

[Hugh Mannity]

Canuck I think the AWD release is imminent, if I were you I’d wait. Actually I am waiting

 

[sitter_k]

Canuck I think the AWD release is imminent, if I were you I’d wait. Actually I am waiting

Elaborate? Elaborate now!

 

[Hugh Mannity]

Elaborate? Elaborate now!

Oh I don’t have any solid info. Just a feeling that AWD will be available to order soon. A couple articles out there are suggesting they are being tested in the wild.