Medicare for all - fixing US healthcare

[reddy]

I am paying for my healthcare and I do know it (what an asinine comment). What you haven't figured out yet is:
1. I don't want to pay for YOUR healthcare (so stop trying to convince me to do so), and
2. Free doesn't mean Free

Tiger,

I don't need your help.

What you're failing to recognize is that you ALREADY pay for other peoples healthcare.

a) Your taxes pay for Medicaid
b) Your Medicare withholding is paying for current expenses for Medicare recipients.
c) You or your employer pay higher insurance costs to cover free care given away by hospitals for those who can't pay.
d) EVERYTHING made or sold in the USA has higher medical costs factored in. For instance, Starbucks spends more money on healthcare for its employees than it spends on coffee beans. That latte cost is more for healthcare than for beans !

Once you climb down from the Fox News approach to the world, and look at this like a BUSINESS, it's not about asking you to pay for anyone elses healthcare. It's about paying for BETTER healthcare, at a lower total cost, that makes the USA more competitive.

Think of it as a big beautiful wall against dangerous and wasteful healthcare costs.

 

[reddy]

i just received my quarterly Part B EOB from Medicare. Guess what? The return address is from Noridian Healthcare Solutions, LLC, a subsidiary of Noridian Mutual Insurance Company.

Yes, CMS uses contractors for each area of the USA>

 

[cpa]

Are you really a CPA or do you just play one on this forum?!? You should already know that CA would have the additional complexity of having to file a CA tax return. Another example... check the price of Turbo tax (or equivalent) cost for NV vs CA... CA is higher, correct?

I am licensed by the California State Board of Accountancy.

I pay about $5,500 per year to a software provider that enables me to prepare an unlimited number of individual federal tax returns plus one state of my choosing. Since I am in California, I choose California. I have to pay extra if a taxpayer resides in Virginia because I paid for unlimited California returns. I have to pay extra if a taxpayer has income sourced to other states because I have to file in those states too.

I still do not understand how filing a California return would require "additional complexity." Sure, there are differences. The software handles 95% of them automatically, so it is simply a matter of review. In the handful of cases where there is more complexity, it is my time that increases. But the overhead really does not increase.

I do not understand what TurboTax has to do with our discussion here. Is it just a red herring that you threw out there?

 

[eevee-fan]

I am licensed by the California State Board of Accountancy.

I pay about $5,500 per year to a software provider that enables me to prepare an unlimited number of individual federal tax returns plus one state of my choosing. Since I am in California, I choose California. I have to pay extra if a taxpayer resides in Virginia because I paid for unlimited California returns. I have to pay extra if a taxpayer has income sourced to other states because I have to file in those states too.

I still do not understand how filing a California return would require "additional complexity." Sure, there are differences. The software handles 95% of them automatically, so it is simply a matter of review. In the handful of cases where there is more complexity, it is my time that increases. But the overhead really does not increase.

I do not understand what TurboTax has to do with our discussion here. Is it just a red herring that you threw out there?

I brought it up since you claim to be a CPA on your user name,

And on your description, you are already admitting it's a little more work for you. Now imagine groups of people creating new rules and auditing the rules.

 

[eevee-fan]

Tiger,

I don't need your help.

What you're failing to recognize is that you ALREADY pay for other peoples healthcare.

a) Your taxes pay for Medicaid
b) Your Medicare withholding is paying for current expenses for Medicare recipients.
c) You or your employer pay higher insurance costs to cover free care given away by hospitals for those who can't pay.
d) EVERYTHING made or sold in the USA has higher medical costs factored in. For instance, Starbucks spends more money on healthcare for its employees than it spends on coffee beans. That latte cost is more for healthcare than for beans !

Once you climb down from the Fox News approach to the world, and look at this like a BUSINESS, it's not about asking you to pay for anyone elses healthcare. It's about paying for BETTER healthcare, at a lower total cost, that makes the USA more competitive.

Think of it as a big beautiful wall against dangerous and wasteful healthcare costs.

+1

Agreed, and when talking about healthcare, it's probably best to talk to someone in the field to understand it better. Public Health/HMO/Preventive Health is suppose to lower cost of care while improving quality of life for the patient. However, since our insurance is so fragmented, there is minimal incentive for health insurance company to offer programs toward that goal. So, having a national insurance will actually save even more.

 

[rxlawdude]

No answer above is correct.

Single payer is not the answer, Obama care was meant to transition to single payer. Don't let the government decide what treatment you need and get!

I always love this kind of argument, from people apparently ignorant that private insurance companies do that ALL THE TIME. And most people do not have an opportunity to "shop around" if they rely on employer-provided health insurance.

 

[EV-Tiger]

Tiger,

I don't need your help.

What you're failing to recognize is that you ALREADY pay for other peoples healthcare.

a) Your taxes pay for Medicaid
b) Your Medicare withholding is paying for current expenses for Medicare recipients.
c) You or your employer pay higher insurance costs to cover free care given away by hospitals for those who can't pay.
d) EVERYTHING made or sold in the USA has higher medical costs factored in. For instance, Starbucks spends more money on healthcare for its employees than it spends on coffee beans. That latte cost is more for healthcare than for beans !

Once you climb down from the Fox News approach to the world, and look at this like a BUSINESS, it's not about asking you to pay for anyone elses healthcare. It's about paying for BETTER healthcare, at a lower total cost, that makes the USA more competitive.

Think of it as a big beautiful wall against dangerous and wasteful healthcare costs.

I like a Big Beautiful Wall!

 

[EV-Tiger]

+1

Agreed, and when talking about healthcare, it's probably best to talk to someone in the field to understand it better. Public Health/HMO/Preventive Health is suppose to lower cost of care while improving quality of life for the patient. However, since our insurance is so fragmented, there is minimal incentive for health insurance company to offer programs toward that goal. So, having a national insurance will actually save even more.

"So, having a national insurance will actually save even more." Yeah! A national insurance program. We'll call it Obamacare-Extra Strength because Obamacare really brought down costs and deductibles.

 

[eevee-fan]

"So, having a national insurance will actually save even more." Yeah! A national insurance program. We'll call it Obamacare-Extra Strength because Obamacare really brought down costs and deductibles.

Taiwan’s single-payer success story — and its lessons for America

Or, you can just build a giant wall around every house and quarantine everyone in their house and the Amazon drone deliver food and water to each house.

 

[Leeclanual]

I like a Big Beautiful Wall!

you’ll like this then...

 

[rxlawdude]

you’ll like this then...

View attachment 516591

I tagged it as "funny," because "sad, but true" isn't an option.

 

[Leeclanual]

Taiwan’s single-payer success story — and its lessons for America

Or, you can just build a giant wall around every house and quarantine everyone in their house and the Amazon drone deliver food and water to each house.

my mom has lived in Taipei for last 20 years... and she said the government provided medical program sucks... “free clinic” type operation and loooong waits for any specialists. She can afford to pay private doctors using cash and gets exceptional care... no waiting.

 

[rxlawdude]

my mom has lived in Taipei for last 20 years... and she said the government provided medical program sucks... “free clinic” type operation and loooong waits for any specialists. She can afford to pay private doctors using cash and gets exceptional care... no waiting.

Fortunately, we don't live in Taiwan.

 

[eevee-fan]

my mom has lived in Taipei for last 20 years... and she said the government provided medical program sucks... “free clinic” type operation and loooong waits for any specialists. She can afford to pay private doctors using cash and gets exceptional care... no waiting.

I guess it's also important to define "long wait". Medical specialty tend to prioritize by medical need, so it's totally reasonable to expect longer wait for non-life threatening issues. Lastly, healthcare in Taiwan is much cheaper than USA, so definitely easier for the rich to just pay cash, and the rich probably can just self-insure anyway.

 

[nwdiver]

Fortunately, we don't live in Taiwan.

Taiwan isn't perfect... but it's still ∞x better than the mess in 'merca. Lots of other systems to choose from... any one of these would be SIGNIFICANTLY better in almost every aspect.

Australia
Canada
Finland
France
Germany
Hungary
Iceland
Ireland
Israel
The Netherlands
New Zealand
Norway
Portugal
The Slovak Republic
Slovenia
Sweden
Switzerland
The United Kingdom

Since we can't agree I propose we just put 'em all in a hat and pick one at random. It's a crazy plan but it's orders of magnitude more sane than staying with the disaster we have now.

 

[eevee-fan]

Taiwan isn't perfect... but it's still ∞x better than the mess in 'merca. Lots of other systems to choose from... any one of these would be SIGNIFICANTLY better in almost every aspect

Since we can't agree I propose we just put 'em all in a hat and pick one at random. It's a crazy plan but it's orders of magnitude more sane than staying with the disaster we have now.

The article mentioned that Taiwan's health system was just as fragmented and dysfunctional as the USA but the government took leadership steps to make a national system. With a national system and especially one automated claim system, admin cost is drastically insured, ensuring more money spent goes to people/equipment/supply/medication that directly benefits the patient... kind of like going from ICE to EVs.

 

[nwdiver]

The article mentioned that Taiwan's health system was just as fragmented and dysfunctional as the USA but the government took leadership steps to make a national system. With a national system and especially one automated claim system, admin cost is drastically insured, ensuring more money spent goes to people/equipment/supply/medication that directly benefits the patient... kind of like going from ICE to EVs.

Didn't mean to disparage Taiwan. Far be if from me living in the land of completely unaffordable healthcare I have no doubt Healthcare in Taiwan is orders of magnitude more effective than the festering disaster in the US.

 

[nwdiver]

This is how insanely idiotic and broken the 'Healthcare' 'system' is in the US.... seriously... just throw a dart at a map and adopt their system....

On Purposely Getting Arrested, to Get Life-Saving Surgery

Sick Oregon Man ‘Robs’ Bank For One Dollar To Get Health Care In Jail

N.C. Man Allegedly Robs Bank of $1 to Get Health Care in Jail

Man who robbed bank wanted to go to jail, ‘get medical assistance,’ affidavit says

 

[rxlawdude]

I have had some interesting discussions with the Bernie folks about "free Medicare for all." Yes, "free" as in no deductibles or copays. Problem is, that's not how Medicare works in its existing form.

Having some cost sharing, as in co-pays (perhaps commensurate with household income), makes sense in that it discourages trivial use - so called "moral hazard" - that feeds into the "free clinic" mentality mentioned above that lead to long waits.

 

[eevee-fan]

I have had some interesting discussions with the Bernie folks about "free Medicare for all." Yes, "free" as in no deductibles or copays. Problem is, that's not how Medicare works in its existing form.

Having some cost sharing, as in co-pays (perhaps commensurate with household income), makes sense in that it discourages trivial use - so called "moral hazard" - that feeds into the "free clinic" mentality mentioned above that lead to long waits.

Time is money, that might be sufficient. Active duty military families get zero out of pocket healthcare already and that includes care outside. I would guess most have better things to do than booking appointments so they can enjoy an hours in the waiting room to get seen for non-issues. Flu shots and preventive care (like mammograms) are free with most insurance, I don't see hoards of people lining up to get multiple shots and b00bs squeezed and zapped.