DaveD
EVs Kick Gas!
Off-topic.
Interesting that you mention Tim Paterson. He test drove the Roadster when Tesla visited Seattle last year. I don't know if he ended up buying one. AFAIK, Bill Gates doesn't own a Tesla, though Paul Allen does.
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Off-topic.
Interesting that you mention Tim Paterson. He test drove the Roadster when Tesla visited Seattle last year. I don't know if he ended up buying one. AFAIK, Bill Gates doesn't own a Tesla, though Paul Allen does.
I disagree. He is representing a company. If a company gets a new CEO and has to discuss things that happened with the company prior to them signing on, should he always differentiate: "Well, they decided to..."?
I mean heck, for all that, how about the actors and voice over artists in commercials? They certainly weren't there when decisions were made but they're quick to say "after years of tests, we've put the best XYZ into our product"
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That assumes that no other investor could have been found. Quite possibly another investor with more of a "hands off" attitude would not have made all the costly changes that Musk did which drove up the cost and delayed production. Point being we don't really know what might have happened.
Martin Eberhard has said that. There were other large investors interested at the same time as Elon Musk. Elon was merely the first person to say that he would write the check.
Also, during one of the early rounds of fundraising, after Elon was already a major investor, Martin wanted to bring in new investors. Supposedly Elon convinced then CEO Eberhard to keep the inventment within exisiting investors. Thus allowing Elon and his allies to accumulate a larger share of ownership. If Eberhard has expaned the list of investors at that time, Elon would not have had as dominant of a position.
Funny, but, in my eyes, with only a few years of history & only a few hundred cars on the road, Tesla is still being founded. If they succeed, these will still be the "early days". In this sense, ME and EM are both founders, albeit with different skill sets.
Which is the "real" founder? Neither: it's Alan Cocconi of AC Propulsion.
(But then, I'm an engineer - not a lawyer.)
Which is the "real" founder? Neither: it's Alan Cocconi of AC Propulsion.
(But then, I'm an engineer - not a lawyer.)
xcelero.ii
Push Start Go
True. However, The so-called "costly changes" that Musk made, where what many feel were necessary refinements, and ultimately helped the end product greatly.
Apple also does this same sort of refinement and we see how the public embraces that!
eg: Seats 1 and Seats 2 for the Roadster. 2 is considerably more comfortable. A change at the behest of EM.
Agreed! They are still a fledgling.
I, too, never got the complaining over the changes. I'd much rather them come to market with an amazing product vs something rushed out just to say it's complete. final touches can make a world of difference -- and while I don't always agree with some of Elon's actions (based on what we hear anyway), I'm all for his vision.
I have actually managed to get into a Lotus Elise with the hardtop on.
If you thought the Tesla Roadster was tough, the Lotus Elise is almost impossible.
You would manage to get in one time for your test drive, then promise yourself NEVER AGAIN.
Lowering the door sill was something that was absolutely required. Elon Musk was right to make that call. It certainly broadened the potential appeal of the Tesla Roadster to middle aged (or older) wealthy guys.
If you thought the Tesla Roadster was tough, the Lotus Elise is almost impossible.
You would manage to get in one time for your test drive, then promise yourself NEVER AGAIN.
Lowering the door sill was something that was absolutely required. Elon Musk was right to make that call. It certainly broadened the potential appeal of the Tesla Roadster to middle aged (or older) wealthy guys.
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Hmm, I have a friend with an Exige with a racing rollbar to climb over. Even harder ingress than a stock Elise. It's all relative. It's tough getting in and out of the Roadster and it's tough getting in an out of a lot of cars. It's not easy and that's all anyone remembers.
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Fair point -- is there a list of all the changes Elon asked for? With that list, we could take a pool on which of the features buyers could have done without in order to get the car faster.
Prime example. the roadster is small enough as it is, I couldn't imagine if it were even more restrictive.
There was a long list of debated features. I don't recall them all, but off the top of my head there were the electric door latches, redesigned headlights, seats, lowered door sills, carbon fiber body (instead of fiberglass), leather covered dashboard & two speed transmission. You can probably find discussions about all of that on TM's blogs. I think most agreed they were good ideas, just maybe too much too soon. The attempt at the two speed transmission caused all sorts of headaches. In the end the car apparently cost too much to produce and was delivered late, but it seems that many customers were willing to wait and appreciated what they got when all was said and done.
xcelero.ii
Push Start Go
See, now I thought a lot of the reason costs became high in the first place was mostly to do with ME; and ultimately resulted in his departure. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I don't know about that... I thought the RUMORS were that his reported costs were much lower than actual costs. If true, he didn't actually cause the price increase so much as under report the actual price
See how Elon's version is becoming a truth? Now is excepted that Martin lied? Pathetic.
It is so simple it is not even funny. Elon takes all credit for good ideas, Martin gets all the blame for costs and delays. Can't you see that those ideas were primary source for costs and delays? Especially two speed transmission that turned out impossible. Now, who is really responsible for that? The guy who demanded it (Elon) or the guy that tried his best to make it (Martin)?
It is so simple it is not even funny. Elon takes all credit for good ideas, Martin gets all the blame for costs and delays. Can't you see that those ideas were primary source for costs and delays? Especially two speed transmission that turned out impossible. Now, who is really responsible for that? The guy who demanded it (Elon) or the guy that tried his best to make it (Martin)?
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Agreed.
The first few years saw both the establishment of the TEG Tesla Motors - Tesla Leadership and the push for the Whitestar/Models S factory site Tesla Motors - Engineering.
Nothing wrong with ambitious targets, but IMO the Board was steered into demanding early progress on too wide a range of strategic and operational fronts.
What is distasteful is the way in which these missed targets have been used subsequently only to tarnish the reputations of certain individuals.
Calling for changes to door sills, headlights, door handles, transmission etc suggests that Elon was a key "Product Architect" long before he decided to adopt the title officially.
In addition he was a key funder and Board Chairman from April 2004 and yet we are meant to believe that he had little idea of the true development costs (many of which he insisted upon) until mid-late 2007???
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What's pathetic here? If any of you have inside knowledge, then speak up, otherwise, we're all just speculating. Some, apparently, with less bias than others
Interesting you brought this up. Tesla has now made the selling of battery tech a viable operation but no longer under the TEG title.
Clearly the idea was a good one but was it too soon? Should it have been shut down? Or was it not shut down? I'm guessing that someone (minimally Daimler) approached them about drivetrain implemnetation. Did Tesla have to cobble a stealth TEG group again -or maybe they never went away.
And then there was the "blame".
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What's pathetic here? If any of you have inside knowledge, then speak up, otherwise, we're all just speculating. Some, apparently, with less bias than others
I kind of agree with this sentiment. I think the majority have accepted that Elon is always lying and Martin is always truthful. I understand the respect that people have for Martin, both as a person and innovator, but the actual truth is largely unknown. I've been pretty much in the middle thus far, but honestly this lawsuit, and the way it's worded makes me lose a lot of the respect I had for Martin. 90%+ is frivolous and doesn't even concern issues of law. That doesn't mean I "like" Elon or the way he often does business, but that really isn't the issue here for me.
xcelero.ii
Push Start Go
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