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Here are the facts
- Most people just vote based on party affiliation. So, partisanship is the #1 factor. Both parties have about equal partisans who vote (lot of Dems but they vote at a lower rate).
- By going to the left or right, you are slightly changing who votes for you.
- Going further from the center makes the base more enthusiastic and more of them vote (or volunteer, donate etc). But you lose some in the "center".
- Tacking back to the center makes the base less enthusiastic and less of them vote (or volunteer, donate etc). But you gain some in the "center".

So, the question really is - by moving from or towards the center do you lose more at the center or more of the base. I don't think we have a clear answer. Consultants would tell you it is a "normal" curve with the majority in the "center". Trump proved them wrong (to a certain extant Sanders) in 16. Most people don't care about free trade or budget deficit that consultant class claimed center cared about.

The "center" is very vague. It is apparently anything that a few political consultants in the DC/NY area claim is the center. It is perhaps something that donors were okay with.

We know that you can get a lot of people to back you by blaming minorities/foreigners … generally anyone who can be "othered". Donors and DC/NY consultants who didn't like the ramifications kept that in check - generally limited to dog whistling. Trump found out that you can just go around the mainstream media as long as you have Fox and twitter/facebook. So, basically you can get more of the base fired up by talking like how those people talked among themselves but was not considered ok in public - it wasn't "politically correct".

What next ?

ps : US is not alone in this. You see the same thing happening in UK, Hungary, India, Philippines, Turkey, Brazil etc

No matter who you nominate, there will always be someone who doesn't end up voting for your candidate who might have voted for someone else. There are candidates who get some people fired up, but turn off others. The African American vote was very high in 2008 and 2012 because there was a black candidate on the ballot. African American turnout was still strong, but weaker in 2016 because the two choices were older white folk who nobody really liked.

Independent voters are all over the map ideologically as well as how engaged they are in the process. But one thing that makes them call themselves independent is they don't really like either party enough to associate with either one. A lot of independent voters are low information voters. The sort of people who ignore the political news and when they do check the news they are looking for the weather forecast or sports results. A number of them are conscientious enough to feel they should vote at least every four years, so they drag themselves to the polls for the ordeal of voting in election cycles. This is most of the people who don't vote in off year elections.

Unfortunately, most of these people vote by feel rather than engage their brain to think about the policies and who stands for what. They go with the candidate who moves them the most. In 2016 both candidates made people ill, so there was no winner there, but since 1960 the candidate who was more interesting, a better campaigner, who won the "who do I want to have a beer with?" question won the election.

To some extent it happened in 2016 too. The Donald Trump from the Apprentice presents as the sort of person who would be more interesting dinner conversation than Hillary Clinton. Most people could imagine Clinton spending the entire meal lecturing about policy and not really much else where Trump would probably tell stories. Most people now realize that Trump would just brag endlessly about himself and not much else, but he kept enough of a lid on it in 2016 to fool enough people to vote for him.

But even among the Democrats, only about 1/3 of Democrats identify as very liberal:
Analysis: How liberal are Democratic voters?

About a third identify as Moderate or even Conservative, which is why Biden holds onto about 1/3 of the vote in polls. He's the best known moderate in the race.

Another poll from Gallup from January found Democrats and Democrat leaning independents by a 54-41 margin wanted the party to move towards the middle. In the same poll Republicans and Republican leaning independents by a 57-37 margin wanted their party to move to the right:
Gallup poll: Majority of Democrats want more moderate party | MinnPost

Bill Maher addressed this on his show on Friday:

If the Democrats run someone who is a moderate, the far left have nowhere else to go and with the lessons of 2016 on their minds, most of the far left will vote Democrat because it's safer. If the Democrats nominate someone to the far left, it will be like McGovern in 1972, the Republicans will be pounding the idea that the candidate is a socialist into the minds of the American electorate and while that isn't considered a bad thing to many younger people, those who lived through the cold war (who also vote in larger numbers), socialist still equals communist in the minds of many.

On the same Bill Maher show they discussed a recent poll which found that if the Republicans can brand the Democratic nominee as a socialist, Trump wins by 6 points.

I wish the US had something more like the multiparty environment in parliamentary systems. In such a system, the Democrats or some other left party could nominate Bernie or someone like him and there would be another candidate on the ballot who was more moderate as well as conservatives. But in the US system, things boil down to two choices, usually neither of which lights the fire of most of the electorate. For most the choice boils down to voting for the candidate who hold some of their values or none of them or for those closer to the center, choosing which candidate they agree with more than the other.
 
Incl
Bob Lutz has performed a valuable service by demonstrating to everyone except TSLAQ nitwits that the "experts" trashing Tesla in Big Media are full of merde. I saw Lutz declare "Tesla loses money on every car" only a few months ago.

Trump and Bush helpfully destroyed the respect that many Americans used to feel for the President merely because he was President. Lutz is doing the same for the anti-Tesla blowhards on TV. You go, Bob.

I agree with folks here who say the FUDsters will not stop. They are too threatened and well-funded to give up. But nothing lasts forever. At some point, the impressionable majority of investors will lose confidence in the "experts" and start believing the Tesla owners, the sales numbers, the product announcements, and the videos of Elon's rockets doing things never done before. The FUD will stop working, no matter how well funded.

Did we reach that point last week? If so, it happened sooner than I expected. But I am learning to expect the unexpected from Tesla.
Include Obama in that repertory, if you like your plan you can keep your plan ....
 
the far left have nowhere else to go and with the lessons of 2016 on their minds, most of the far left will vote Democrat because it's safer.
Some of the far left voted 3rd party or for Trump in 2016 because they were so angry the way the Democratic party treated Bernie. They'll do it again if it's another "centrist" like Clinton. They are sick of the corrupt politicians on both sides.
 
Some of the far left voted 3rd party or for Trump in 2016 because they were so angry the way the Democratic party treated Bernie. They'll do it again if it's another "centrist" like Clinton. They are sick of the corrupt politicians on both sides.

Reality check. In the latest Quinnipiac poll 97% of Democrats support the inquiry and 86% already support impeaching Trump.
After public hearings and the impeachment of Trump, Dems supporting the impeachment will be around 97%. No one supporting Impeaching Trump is going to vote for him in 2020 because they are in a snit that the nominee is a moderate rather than a far left wing Democrat. 2020 is not 2016. Moderate and left leaning voters know what Trump has done the past 3 years and that he is an existential threat to American democracy if reelected.
 
For the current Congress, "How often a member votes in line with Trump's position." Basically a political spectrum proxy.

Tracking Congress In The Age Of Trump

Elizabeth Warren 11.8%
Bernie Sanders 13.1%
Cory Booker 13.5%
Kamala Harris 15.8%
Chuck Schumer 23.6% (for reference only)
Amy Klobuchar 26.7%

Unfortunately no Biden or Buttigieg for comparison.

Viewing the voting record by percentages instead of by which Bills were supported is very misleading........especially when it comes to Elizabeth Warren.

"Unfortunately, most of the articles I’ve seen supporting Warren ignore her environmentally destructive pro-war policies. In 2017, she voted in favor of raising the defense budget to $700 billion dollars, including an additional $60 billion for military operations in countries such as Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan. The bill increased military spending by $80 billion in total, and even surpassed the $54 billion increase requested by President Trump...........Neither Gabbard nor Sanders voted to increase Trump’s military budget in 2017. And as the most anti-war candidate in the primaries, Gravel surely wouldn’t have if he’d been a sitting congressperson at the time. Warren often says that defeating Donald Trump is the most important thing in 2020, but her actions simply don’t support that. If they did, then she’d be a progressive leader, fighting to win over Trump supporters who only watch Fox News. Either that, or she’d drop out to endorse a progressive Democrat who will."

Progressives — Don’t Be Fooled by Elizabeth Warren
 
No matter who you nominate, there will always be someone who doesn't end up voting for your candidate who might have voted for someone else. There are candidates who get some people fired up, but turn off others. The African American vote was very high in 2008 and 2012 because there was a black candidate on the ballot. African American turnout was still strong, but weaker in 2016 because the two choices were older white folk who nobody really liked.
This shows if you tack to the center you lose votes. Calling AA youths "super predators" wasn't a great idea, afterall. Sanders "surprise" primary win in Michigan should have taught all the consultants something - but didn't.

Independent voters are all over the map ideologically as well as how engaged they are in the process. But one thing that makes them call themselves independent is they don't really like either party enough to associate with either one. A lot of independent voters are low information voters. The sort of people who ignore the political news and when they do check the news they are looking for the weather forecast or sports results. A number of them are conscientious enough to feel they should vote at least every four years, so they drag themselves to the polls for the ordeal of voting in election cycles. This is most of the people who don't vote in off year elections.
I'd be an independent if I didn't have to join Dems to caucus. A lot of consultants talk about independents as if they are "moderate" and in the "center". Really weird because Sanders always did better than Hillary where independents were allowed to vote in the primary.

Unfortunately, most of these people vote by feel rather than engage their brain to think about the policies and who stands for what. They go with the candidate who moves them the most. In 2016 both candidates made people ill, so there was no winner there, but since 1960 the candidate who was more interesting, a better campaigner, who won the "who do I want to have a beer with?" question won the election.
I've never seen any polls to prove people are thinking about drinking beer with the president. So I'm going to assume it is some nonsense made up by consultants.

But even among the Democrats, only about 1/3 of Democrats identify as very liberal:
Analysis: How liberal are Democratic voters?

About a third identify as Moderate or even Conservative, which is why Biden holds onto about 1/3 of the vote in polls. He's the best known moderate in the race.

Another poll from Gallup from January found Democrats and Democrat leaning independents by a 54-41 margin wanted the party to move towards the middle. In the same poll Republicans and Republican leaning independents by a 57-37 margin wanted their party to move to the right:
Gallup poll: Majority of Democrats want more moderate party | MinnPost

This is where the whole "liberate-moderate-conservative" idea falls flat. Most of the time people are talking about social issues rather than economic. Most of the older people are socially more moderate/conservative - but not necessarily economically free-traders. That's why they didn't care about Trump's protectionist policies.

Bill Maher addressed this on his show on Friday:

Its difficult to listen to someone who doesn't understand the above simple fact. Neo-liberals want socially liberal, economically free-market type people. Most "moderate/conservative" voters want socially moderate/conservative but economically progressive candidate.

On the same Bill Maher show they discussed a recent poll which found that if the Republicans can brand the Democratic nominee as a socialist, Trump wins by 6 points.
Look at ALL the polls - not some poll with questionable wordings. Sanders does much better than "moderate Dems".
 
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No one supporting Impeaching Trump is going to vote for him in 2020 because they are in a snit that the nominee is a moderate rather than a far left wing Democrat. 2020 is not 2016. Moderate and left leaning voters know what Trump has done the past 3 years and that he is an existential threat to American democracy if reelected.
In other words no need to worry about putting in a "centrist" candidate, might as well vote for Sanders and real change.
 
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Now this is a Dem insider speaking out ...

pdou.PNG
 
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For the current Congress, "How often a member votes in line with Trump's position." Basically a political spectrum proxy.

Tracking Congress In The Age Of Trump

Elizabeth Warren 11.8%
Bernie Sanders 13.1%
Cory Booker 13.5%
Kamala Harris 15.8%
Chuck Schumer 23.6% (for reference only)
Amy Klobuchar 26.7%

Unfortunately no Biden or Buttigieg for comparison.
Its a poor proxy. Some of them knew about the coming primary and were voting with that in mind.

Proof - the lowest % is Kirsten Gillibrand.

Tracking Congress In The Age Of Trump
 
Bobfitz1 said:
No one supporting Impeaching Trump is going to vote for him in 2020 because they are in a snit that the nominee is a moderate rather than a far left wing Democrat. 2020 is not 2016. Moderate and left leaning voters know what Trump has done the past 3 years and that he is an existential threat to American democracy if reelected.

In other words no need to worry about putting in a "centrist" candidate, might as well vote for Sanders and real change.
ut

Wrong.

1. Something like 1 in 10 Sanders supporters voted for Trump in 2016. They did so because the Dem party rules were gamed to advantage Clinton and Hillary Clinton was beholden to the 1% Wall Street elites. They did not vote for Trump because Clinton was a "moderate". In the election itself, people did not vote against Clinton because she was perceived as too moderate but because she was seen as Hillary Clinton (fill in all the negatives).

2. Moderate is not a pejorative for the majority of the electorate. You have defined moderate for yourself as Clintonesque. In reality most of the Dems running for nomination are 'progressive' moderates. IMO progressive is modestly to the left of Centrist. Gallop in 2017 identified party identification as 31% Democrat, 24% Republican and 42% Independent. Large majorities of the full electorate support a number of progressive positions but identify as close to the center politically. Expecting 66% of the electorate to vote for a proud socialist is a dubious proposition and a hell of a risk to take when 4 more years of Trump and a Republican Senate spell 'Game Over'.

3. Suggest you view the Bill Maher video again. This is what a liberal who is practical and wants a progressive agenda to win looks like.
 
I think Bill misses his own point: Dems have nowhere else to go. I don't think Sanders is going to lose just because he supports prisoner voting, (even though I agree with Bill that it's a stupid issue to bring up).


Spot-on @JRP3 - Krystal spoke at length about the DNC offering nowhere else to go this morning - pointing out that CNN refused to acknowledge Sanders shooting past Warren in the New Hampshire polls in 5 different articles yesterday, while CNN did claim that Pete Buttigieg is now a 'very strong 4th' for whatever that is worth. Both anchors focused on how Sanders will gain votes from Biden, Warren, and/or Buttigieg voters should any one of them slip in the polls. It is an informative 8 minutes:

 
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Bobfitz1 said:
No one supporting Impeaching Trump is going to vote for him in 2020 because they are in a snit that the nominee is a moderate rather than a far left wing Democrat. 2020 is not 2016. Moderate and left leaning voters know what Trump has done the past 3 years and that he is an existential threat to American democracy if reelected.

3. Suggest you view the Bill Maher video again. This is what a liberal who is practical and wants a progressive agenda to win looks like.

We should be cautious when we hold up the opinions of popular comedians because they have criticized 'Republicans' in the past, as that also gives them a strong ability to influence a voting demographic because of the image they have created of a sense of alignment.

Bill Maher began his career with a message that was somewhat liberal, and he delivered a strong message against Bush and continues with Trump.........but there is also a very strong argument that this gives him the ability to influence his own party should they move too far left. Bill is a Centrist that is coming down hard on Progressives in part because that is the DNC's position.........and in part because he doesn't want to have to pay his fair share of taxes if/when the Progressive policies are implemented. Thus he is literally fighting the very audience who helped his career get launched. Note his opinions on Health Care also reflect the DNC's position, not the overwhelming position of the voting public. I sincerely believe that he gets a LOT of help regarding his subject material and the positions he conveys.

Another comedian playing this false narrative to the advantage of the DNC IMO is John Oliver, and this was realized by a very large number of more progressive voters in the 2016 Dem Primary when Bernie was surging in the polls. Even though he had represented himself as a very left-leaning individual to gain popularity with his audiences too, suddenly John was delivering 'comedy journalism' that was laser-focused on informing us why Medicare for All was a stupid idea and would never work when Bernie was backing it and Hillary was viciously opposed to it. The tremendous irony there was that John is from England......and single payer medical has worked very well in his home country, and across much of the rest of Europe for a very long time. So where did this change in position come from at a critical time in the campaign for the Centrist DNC.

We can go on at length regarding just about everything on MSDNC at this point too.....

I agree with much of what @wdolson writes on this forum, but I cannot subscribe to citations of Bill Maher as either informative or representative of the voting public in this election. He is a political tool for the DNC........to move us further to the Center (Right) with comedy. As is John Oliver.
 
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