Looks like they are removing stalks from the 3/Y

[kevinquisition]

The truth is, I'm *very* happy with my Model 3 overall. That said, Tesla continually makes choices that seem hostile to their own customer base.

I do get the sense that decisions are made without concern for the customers. When demand outstrips supply this much, maybe it doesn't matter to them anymore.

Completely agree with what you said here. As a new Tesla owner I'm super happy with the car overall. There is no car in the price range as fast, efficient, and fun to drive as the M3LR; EV or otherwise. Couple that with the nice to haves like supercharger network and amazing speakers, and from an objective standpoint, it's hard to argue with.

That said, there are still build quality issues. Software updates are one step forward one step back. Features are being removed, including physical interfaces that increase safety and usability.

Tesla seems to be having a complete disconnect between their vision for the future and what their customers actually want. To them, building vehicles is an afterthought in the pursuit of something bigger. Software is only useful when it helps them push the self-driving narrative. User experience can be ignored since us customers are still gladly funding the science project.

While it's still a great product, I fear that with each iteration they're moving towards something that's not a traditional car. The endgame is clearly a car without a steering wheel, and only FSD. Perhaps even a subscription where you don't own your car. Count me out for that, I'll switch to the electric/hybrid Corvette when Tesla does it.

 

[SMAlset]

Exactly. Elon has been saying for some time that they’re working towards the cars not having steering wheels, FSD will control them, they won’t be selling individual cars any longer but the roads will be populated with robotaxis you’ll call up to go where you want. If all vehicles after a certain date will be owned by some robotaxi firm I don’t think anyone will care about if the door panel gap is off a mm, do you?

So I’m not surprised by the changes to the steering wheel area or rise in cost of the software I guess. It’s flowing toward his vision. Who knows when this will all happen if anytime in the near future but it seems like where Elon goes, things follow…eventually. As it is car manufacturers are copying to a great extent what Elon and Tesla have created from the EV itself, software and features, charging stations, direct-to-consumer sales. As for software, I feel more comfortable with Tesla having been doing this integrated approach than a manufacturer new to the game. I’m sure a number of EVs will fall to the wayside and not sure where that will leave owners, sort of like cell phones not being supported with software updates.

We have a 2017 MS (with EAP) and a 2018 Model 3LR (AP and FSD, the later we don’t use…yet anyway…but bought during a sale they had). We both love our cars which have held up great and still enjoy driving them as much as when we bought them. I’m in no hurry to change anything. As for robotaxis, when I lived in Chicago I never liked taking taxis so whether there’s a driver or not I still don’t think I’ll like calling or riding in a non-owned car. Not really a fan of Uber/Lift either not surprisingly.

 

[CyberGus]

“If you never need to add anything back, you’re not removing enough.” - Elon Musk

I’ve seen Tesla do plenty of removing over the years, and not a whole lotta adding back.

Elon, it’s time.

 

[BigNick]

Perhaps even a subscription where you don't own your car. Count me out for that, I'll switch to the electric/hybrid Corvette when Tesla does it.

Isn’t that basically what a lease is already?

I am excited to see the new e-Corvette. I wouldn’t even mind a standard ICE 70th anniversary edition. If I could fit inside, that is.

 

[heavyD]

While it's still a great product, I fear that with each iteration they're moving towards something that's not a traditional car. The endgame is clearly a car without a steering wheel, and only FSD. Perhaps even a subscription where you don't own your car. Count me out for that, I'll switch to the electric/hybrid Corvette when Tesla does it.

This issue is that they are still traditional cars that have steering wheels and we still need to drive them ourselves, so as long as this is the case I feel they need to start listening to what owners want today, not what they will want in the future. I like my M3P but the ownership experience could be so much better if the car wasn't so compromised and lacking compared to other new vehicles today.

 

[Cavedriver]

Musk has been worshipping at the altar of Jobs too much. This has to stop. Just stupid. As has been pointed out, levers and tactile switches beat touch interfaces for speed and reliability, and when my life is on the line that comes first by far. Plus, driver's car? Not anymore if they do touch, or even buttons. I should never have to think or look for a button. Period.

 

[kavyboy]

Musk has been worshipping at the altar of Jobs too much. This has to stop. Just stupid. As has been pointed out, levers and tactile switches beat touch interfaces for speed and reliability, and when my life is on the line that comes first by far. Plus, driver's car? Not anymore if they do touch, or even buttons. I should never have to think or look for a button. Period.

The lack of tactile input devices is made worse when the UI is constantly being shuffled so that muscle memory can't be relied upon.

 

[PianoAl]

When are these 2023 stalkless cars likely to arrive?

Having two cars with different interfaces would not be ideal.

 

[PianoAl]

Musk has been worshipping at the altar of Jobs too much.

A relevant, misguided Jobs quote that seemed profound at the time:

"Having only one mouse button makes it hard to press the wrong button."

 

[father_of_6]

A relevant, misguided Jobs quote that seemed profound at the time:

"Having only one mouse button makes it hard to press the wrong button."

Yeah, having no mouse button makes it hard to press the wrong button too.

IMO, getting rid of everything from the dashboard and putting a 15 inch tablet there was revolutionary.

Replacing stalks, horns, and steering wheels is like the engineer who can't interface with other humans. Tesla is trying to be so "smart" that they cross the line into unappealing... and they haven't a clue where that line even is.

 

[sfRonH]

FYI the Model 3/Y turn stalks are electronic. People like physical buttons because they are tactile and enables drivers to make adjustments faster. Nearly 2.5x faster according to this studly. It's just something that's never going to change as no matter how well a screen is configured the driver still has to look at it to perform a task whereas physical buttons can be utilized via muscle memory.

Physical Buttons Much Easier To Use Than Infotainment Screens, Study Finds | Carscoops

On average, it takes drivers 25 seconds to accomplish what could be done in 10 seconds before touchscreens

www.carscoops.com

I've had my Model Y for about 4 months, and I really miss buttons! Not because I'm a luddite who resists change, but because having to look at the screen and navigate thru 2 or 3 menus is a big distraction when driving. Example: the climate control, often the pop up menu closes before I can figure out what I'm doing, while also watching the road. Example 2: the setting sun was low, behind me, causing a major glare in my sideview mirrors. It took way too much screen navigation to adjust my mirrors. In my old car, I could do it all with my left hand with no eyes. Please don't call me a ludite. I am a former applications programmer who is computer savvy, but taking ones eyes off the road is a bad idea. I love how the car drives, but I'm fairly disappointed in the User Interface.

 

[chinney]

When are these 2023 stalkless cars likely to arrive?

Having two cars with different interfaces would not be ideal.

View attachment 856254

Is it even clear that there is a definite Tesla plan that new Model 3/Ys will be coming without stalks? Or does this all remain unconfirmed?

 

[father_of_6]

Is it even clear that there is a definite Tesla plan that new Model 3/Ys will be coming without stalks? Or does this all remain unconfirmed?

Pretty sure it's just a rumor at this point.

 

[CyberGus]

A relevant, misguided Jobs quote that seemed profound at the time:

"Having only one mouse button makes it hard to press the wrong button."

“The best mouse button is no mouse button.” - Steve J Musk

 

[smogne41]

“The best mouse button is no mouse button.” - Steve J Musk

"Mouse buttons are totally unnecessary and very old fashioned, just use the 'activate mouse button' voice command." -Every Tesla fanboi

 

[Jclboston]

Old aircooled VWs had a common failure mode where the turn signal mechanical self-cancel would stop working, so the driver had to turn off the signal after completing the turn. But that was the only stalk failure that I remember encountering.

Now, maybe the complicated mechanical linkage for 3-on-the-tree manual transmissions had more failure points than other shifters. But that is not really relevant to the PRND / TACC / AS stalk on a Tesla.

I’ve never had any stalk failures ever in 20+ years of driving in any vehicle.. oh except in the Tesla. Failed turn signal commands and multiple attempts needed to go from Park to Drive occur pretty regularly for me unfortunately, and the former has been brought up others in at least a few other threads. I have no idea how common the Park to Drive “issue” is or whether I’m just unlucky here.

Maybe they know the stalks are *sugar* and rather than fix, they figure to just remove them. We’ll go from failed turn signal commands to inadvertent signaling with the steering wheel capacitive button . Sweet.

 

[father_of_6]

I’ve never had any stalk failures ever in 20+ years of driving in any vehicle.. oh except in the Tesla. Failed turn signal commands and multiple attempts needed to go from Park to Drive occur pretty regularly for me unfortunately, and the former has been brought up others in at least a few other threads. I have no idea how common the Park to Drive “issue” is or whether I’m just unlucky here.

Maybe they know the stalks are *sugar* and rather than fix, they figure to just remove them. We’ll go from failed turn signal commands to inadvertent signaling with the steering wheel capacitive button . Sweet.

Ditto on the "never had any stalk failures". I disagree that Tesla has issues with their stalks though. You do need to commit to your stalk presses with a certain firmness though... if you half press or press sloppily, you won't always get the desired outcome.

 

[Electroman]

Failed turn signal commands

Failed turn signal? Don't know what you are talking about.

 

[Gauss Guzzler]

Failed turn signal commands and multiple attempts needed to go from Park to Drive occur pretty regularly for me unfortunately, I have no idea how common the Park to Drive “issue” is or whether I’m just unlucky here.

It took me a while to figure out why it wouldn't go from Park to Drive - I wasn't waiting the requisite ~1/2 second between pressing the brake and shifting the lever. My gearshift is 100% reliable, now that I know how to use it.

The turn signal is a different story. It is 100% reliable, but also 100% stoopid. Somehow it won't detect brief taps despite the fact that it seems electromechanically identical to the gearshift - which *does* detect brief taps. I now have to make a conscious effort to hold the signal stalk long enough for it to register rather than simply tapping it like I would in any other car.

 

[Transformer]

My sure-fire technique for the Park-to-Drive transition: Wait for the startup self-test to turn off most of the warning indicators.

What's the technique to reliably cancel a turn signal?

I know about tapping in the same direction but still wrangle with it. (Wish I could disable the feature where a short tap on the stalk starts 3 blinks.)