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Israel/Hamas conflict

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Gift article (hope this works, I’m trying this on an ancient iPad)

Highlights(pretend these are quoted, pls):

More than six months into the war in Gaza and with dimming hopes for a cease-fire deal, Palestinians there are growing more critical of Hamas, which some of them blame for the months-long conflict that has destroyed the territory — and their lives.

But while the majority of Palestinians in Gaza blame Israel for their suffering, according to polling conducted in March, they also appear to be turning their ire toward the militants. In interviews with more than a dozen residents of Gaza, people said they resent Hamas for the attacks in Israel and — war-weary and desperate to fulfill their basic needs — just want to see peace as soon as possible.

The group’s administration in Gaza was “full of corruption, nepotism, and bias in favor of the movement,” said Mohamed, 35, a graphic designer from Rafah. He spoke on the condition that only his first name be used out of fear of reprisal by the group’s fighters.
Also in Rafah, Ayman, 46, said he voted for Hamas in 2006 because he thought the Palestinian Authority was corrupt. But what came next, he said, also speaking on the condition that only his first name be used, “was a number of wars, the destruction of homes, the martyrdom of thousands, difficulty in life, and the siege.”


But while resentment is brewing, many Palestinians “feel it’s a shame to go after Hamas during this Israeli assault,” said Mkhaimar Abusada, associate professor of political science at al-Azhar University in Gaza, who is now based in Cairo. “They don’t want to be seen as collaborators with the occupation if they protest against Hamas now.”
In the March poll from the policy center, a slim majority of respondents in Gaza said they would prefer Hamas — rather than the Palestinian Authority — to control the Strip after the war. The other options included the United Nations, the Israeli military, or one or more Arab countries.
“Given the magnitude of the suffering in the Gaza Strip, this seems to be the most counter intuitive finding of the entire poll,” the researchers wrote. At the same time, the results were consistent with the increase in the percentage of Palestinians in Gaza who think Hamas will win the war and stay in power.
“There are many ways to understand that,” Palestinian political analyst Khalil Sayegh, who is based in Washington, said of the finding in an interview last week. “One of which is that the people understood and saw that Hamas is staying, and thus they’re afraid to express their opinions.”
 
Gift article (hope this works, I’m trying this on an ancient iPad)

Highlights(pretend these are quoted, pls):

More than six months into the war in Gaza and with dimming hopes for a cease-fire deal, Palestinians there are growing more critical of Hamas, which some of them blame for the months-long conflict that has destroyed the territory — and their lives.

But while the majority of Palestinians in Gaza blame Israel for their suffering, according to polling conducted in March, they also appear to be turning their ire toward the militants. In interviews with more than a dozen residents of Gaza, people said they resent Hamas for the attacks in Israel and — war-weary and desperate to fulfill their basic needs — just want to see peace as soon as possible.

The group’s administration in Gaza was “full of corruption, nepotism, and bias in favor of the movement,” said Mohamed, 35, a graphic designer from Rafah. He spoke on the condition that only his first name be used out of fear of reprisal by the group’s fighters.
Also in Rafah, Ayman, 46, said he voted for Hamas in 2006 because he thought the Palestinian Authority was corrupt. But what came next, he said, also speaking on the condition that only his first name be used, “was a number of wars, the destruction of homes, the martyrdom of thousands, difficulty in life, and the siege.”


But while resentment is brewing, many Palestinians “feel it’s a shame to go after Hamas during this Israeli assault,” said Mkhaimar Abusada, associate professor of political science at al-Azhar University in Gaza, who is now based in Cairo. “They don’t want to be seen as collaborators with the occupation if they protest against Hamas now.”
In the March poll from the policy center, a slim majority of respondents in Gaza said they would prefer Hamas — rather than the Palestinian Authority — to control the Strip after the war. The other options included the United Nations, the Israeli military, or one or more Arab countries.
“Given the magnitude of the suffering in the Gaza Strip, this seems to be the most counter intuitive finding of the entire poll,” the researchers wrote. At the same time, the results were consistent with the increase in the percentage of Palestinians in Gaza who think Hamas will win the war and stay in power.
“There are many ways to understand that,” Palestinian political analyst Khalil Sayegh, who is based in Washington, said of the finding in an interview last week. “One of which is that the people understood and saw that Hamas is staying, and thus they’re afraid to express their opinions.”
It’s a strange thing when polling organizations conduct polls knowing the participants are too intimidated to answer truthfully
 
Columbia University President Shafik acted as if she was still in 1968, and it backfired:

"...the Columbia University Senate approved a resolution that Shafik's administration had undermined academic freedom and disregarded the privacy and due process rights of students and faculty members by calling in the police and shutting down the protest."

Columbia leadership rebuked by faculty panel for police crackdown on protesters
 
While we are supposed to be outraged about the discomfort of some Jewish students and professors at US universities, there are mass graves being uncovered at two hospitals in Gaza:

U.S. State Department spokesman Vedant Patel on Tuesday called the reports of mass graves at the hospitals “incredibly troubling” and said U.S. officials have asked the Israeli government for information.

Troubling, Mr. Patel, really? And they asked the Israeli government for more information?
Do people recall the early stages of the war in Ukraine, when the Russians were accused of having committed war crimes in the Ukrainian city of Bucha, a smallish town some 25km away from Kyiv? The Russians were in denial, yet there were all of a sudden plenty of high definition satellite images that proved that the Russians were lying.
Yet now we are supposed to believe that the State Department doesn't have high quality satellite images available that show exactly what was going on at these hospitals? Really?
(With satellites there isn't even a risk of seeing a repeat of the USS Liberty "incident")
 
While we are supposed to be outraged about the discomfort of some Jewish students and professors at US universities, there are mass graves being uncovered at two hospitals in Gaza:

U.S. State Department spokesman Vedant Patel on Tuesday called the reports of mass graves at the hospitals “incredibly troubling” and said U.S. officials have asked the Israeli government for information.

Troubling, Mr. Patel, really? And they asked the Israeli government for more information?
Do people recall the early stages of the war in Ukraine, when the Russians were accused of having committed war crimes in the Ukrainian city of Bucha, a smallish town some 25km away from Kyiv? The Russians were in denial, yet there were all of a sudden plenty of high definition satellite images that proved that the Russians were lying.
Yet now we are supposed to believe that the State Department doesn't have high quality satellite images available that show exactly what was going on at these hospitals? Really?
(With satellites there isn't even a risk of seeing a repeat of the USS Liberty "incident")
More propaganda from Germany
 
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Reasonable to investigate, but should be noted that Israeli army spokesman Major Nadav Shoshani reported "Misinformation is circulating regarding a mass grave that was discovered at Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis. The grave in question was dug — by Gazans — a few months ago." As the Hamas led government is renown for war crimes and attempted genocide, should be presumed until proven otherwise that they are culpable.
 
While we are supposed to be outraged about the discomfort of some Jewish students and professors at US universities, there are mass graves being uncovered at two hospitals in Gaza:

U.S. State Department spokesman Vedant Patel on Tuesday called the reports of mass graves at the hospitals “incredibly troubling” and said U.S. officials have asked the Israeli government for information.

Troubling, Mr. Patel, really? And they asked the Israeli government for more information?
Do people recall the early stages of the war in Ukraine, when the Russians were accused of having committed war crimes in the Ukrainian city of Bucha, a smallish town some 25km away from Kyiv? The Russians were in denial, yet there were all of a sudden plenty of high definition satellite images that proved that the Russians were lying.
Yet now we are supposed to believe that the State Department doesn't have high quality satellite images available that show exactly what was going on at these hospitals? Really?
(With satellites there isn't even a risk of seeing a repeat of the USS Liberty "incident")

Satellite images over Israel are restricted. "Israel" also means occupied areas such as the West Bank and Gaza.

 
Reasonable to investigate, but should be noted that Israeli army spokesman Major Nadav Shoshani reported "Misinformation is circulating regarding a mass grave that was discovered at Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis. The grave in question was dug — by Gazans — a few months ago." As the Hamas led government is renown for war crimes and attempted genocide, should be presumed until proven otherwise that they are culpable.
Maybe, maybe not. Neither Hamas, nor the IDF are trustworthy. Might be useful if there were at least some journalists on the ground, yet Gaza has turned into a kill zone for journalists, with 97 killed since October of last year - many of them by Israeli airstrikes, drone strikes, snipers etc.etc..
(The Committee to Protect Journalists provides more information on the journalists killed in Gaza.)
 
Hamas and Iran celebrate anti-Gaza war protests taking US colleges by storm

Palestinian militant group Hamas and Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei publicly applauded the growing number of anti-Gaza war protests and encampments that have sprung up on college campuses from California to Massachusetts and have become a flashpoint in the U.S.

Izzat Al-Risheq, a member of the militant group's Political Bureau, said on Wednesday that President Joe Biden's administration is violating the rights of students and faculty members and arresting them, "because of their rejection of the genocide that our Palestinian people are the subjected in the Gaza Strip at the hands of the neo-Nazi Zionists."
"neo-Nazi Zionists"? says the propagandist troll for the idiots that want to kill all the Jews.

I'm sure Joe Biden is going on Columbia's campus and personally tossing these pure as the driven snow freedom lovers into the Federal hoosegow. At least that's how the raping murderers are portraying it. Sadly the students, most of whom seem to have no idea what is going on in the world and even those who are running the show have no idea what they want, other than for all the Jews to leave and turn Israel into a theocratic paradise.

Lots of young folks are full of hate, just like their parents. Maybe someone should hold a teach in on the history of endless wars in the Middle East and educate them on the fact that it won't stop until they get rid of all the religious whackjobs on both sides.
 
Totally. Guy A (Israel) who shoplifted and guy B (Hamas et al) the serial killer are both untrustworthy criminals. They're all just criminals. Makes sense.:rolleyes:
The IDF has killed thousands of civilians. When we go by sheer numbers, then Hamas will have a tough job to catch up. And we aren't talking just about Gaza, there are also hundreds of killings of Palestinians in the West Bank each year, that can't be blamed on Hamas. Additionally, the IDF has been caught repeatedly lying.
I wouldn't like to run a shop in your neighbourhood, if that's the kind of shoplifters you've got there.
 
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The state of journalism is terrible. Our educational system is a mess. Brainwashed drones having struggle sessions on campuses.

Journalism is changing. The state of "mainstream" journalism in print media, TV, and radio is declining. There is a new journalism cropping up online which is a mixed bag. Some of it is very good while others are propaganda channels pumping garbage into the media stream. Some online media sources are getting more views per day than the highest rated cable channels.

Every generation has made mistakes with educating their young and somehow we've always managed to muddle through. Maybe someday we will make a critical mistake that blows up everything, but claiming the youth are all screwed up has been going on for many generations. The people saying it now had it said about them when they were young.

A human's brain isn't fully mature until about age 25. As a result kids do stupid things and have done so as long as humans have been around.

Columbia University President Shafik acted as if she was still in 1968, and it backfired:

"...the Columbia University Senate approved a resolution that Shafik's administration had undermined academic freedom and disregarded the privacy and due process rights of students and faculty members by calling in the police and shutting down the protest."

Columbia leadership rebuked by faculty panel for police crackdown on protesters

I saw something in the last couple of days from someone who is there in New York and has some connection to Columbia. There are two groups of protestors. The students do have an encampment in the cloistered part of campus that only students and staff normally go. They are making too much noise, but that's about the peak problem with their protest.

Columbia also has a gate to New York proper which off campus students use to get to school. That gate has attracted a large number of non-students who are camping out around the gate and are the most belligerent. The incident the other day in which a Hasidic Jewish student was verbally attacked happened when the student was trying to get on campus at that gate. The attacker was a non-student.

Columbia is going to online classes because their off campus students are saying they don't feel safe running the gauntlet of non-student protesters at the gate.

At least some of these non-students might be "professional" agitators who are trying to amp up the protests and turn it into a serious problem for the election. There are some people who want a repeat of 1968 because that helped Nixon get elected. In that game the students are just patsies.

Most of the media coverage is at that gate too. Even if there aren't any professional agitators trying to stir up trouble, there is every crazy in the New York area who wants to be on TV there causing whatever trouble they can to get attention to themselves.

The media who wants there to be juicy stories that get people to tune in are also amping up any conflict to get attention to their outlets. I have seen a few professors at different schools talk about the protests. Some campuses have no protests at all, but the ones that do the number of protestors who are students are a small percentage of the actual student body. Where possible a lot of locals who are not students are bulking up the numbers. Whether the locals are just well meaning people or include some people there to cause trouble, I don't know, but this is not just students protesting. At best only half the protesters are students.

The bulk of students at these schools are just trying to do what students normally do: get to class, study, hang out with some friends, prepare for their summer internship, etc.

The protests over Israel/Palestine are tiny compared to the Vietnam War protests. Which makes sense. Most people aren't going to get worked up about something unless they have a dog in the fight. During Vietnam the men on college campuses were facing the prospect of being drafted and sent to Vietnam. They could get deferments, but they still faced the risk of going when they got out of college. The women were seeing their boyfriends, husbands, brothers, and friends at risk of going to war.

The situation right now has no risk at all for Americans. It's an ideological protest which is only going to draw ideologues. The rest of the students have other, more pressing things on their minds. The media is hyping this because it help their ratings.
 
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Journalism is changing. The state of "mainstream" journalism in print media, TV, and radio is declining. There is a new journalism cropping up online which is a mixed bag. Some of it is very good while others are propaganda channels pumping garbage into the media stream. Some online media sources are getting more views per day than the highest rated cable channels.

Every generation has made mistakes with educating their young and somehow we've always managed to muddle through. Maybe someday we will make a critical mistake that blows up everything, but claiming the youth are all screwed up has been going on for many generations. The people saying it now had it said about them when they were young.

A human's brain isn't fully mature until about age 25. As a result kids do stupid things and have done so as long as humans have been around.
All this is true. However, I don't call most of what's paid attention to "journalism". It's drinking from the fire hose.
I saw something in the last couple of days from someone who is there in New York and has some connection to Columbia. There are two groups of protestors. The students do have an encampment in the cloistered part of campus that only students and staff normally go. They are making too much noise, but that's about the peak problem with their protest.

Columbia also has a gate to New York proper which off campus students use to get to school. That gate has attracted a large number of non-students who are camping out around the gate and are the most belligerent. The incident the other day in which a Hasidic Jewish student was verbally attacked happened when the student was trying to get on campus at that gate. The attacker was a non-student.

Columbia is going to online classes because their off campus students are saying they don't feel safe running the gauntlet of non-student protesters at the gate.

At least some of these non-students might be "professional" agitators who are trying to amp up the protests and turn it into a serious problem for the election. There are some people who want a repeat of 1968 because that helped Nixon get elected. In that game the students are just patsies.

Most of the media coverage is at that gate too. Even if there aren't any professional agitators trying to stir up trouble, there is every crazy in the New York area who wants to be on TV there causing whatever trouble they can to get attention to themselves.

The media who wants there to be juicy stories that get people to tune in are also amping up any conflict to get attention to their outlets. I have seen a few professors at different schools talk about the protests. Some campuses have no protests at all, but the ones that do the number of protestors who are students are a small percentage of the actual student body. Where possible a lot of locals who are not students are bulking up the numbers. Whether the locals are just well meaning people or include some people there to cause trouble, I don't know, but this is not just students protesting. At best only half the protesters are students.

The bulk of students at these schools are just trying to do what students normally do: get to class, study, hang out with some friends, prepare for their summer internship, etc.

The protests over Israel/Palestine are tiny compared to the Vietnam War protests. Which makes sense. Most people aren't going to get worked up about something unless they have a dog in the fight. During Vietnam the men on college campuses were facing the prospect of being drafted and sent to Vietnam. They could get deferments, but they still faced the risk of going when they got out of college. The women were seeing their boyfriends, husbands, brothers, and friends at risk of going to war.

The situation right now has no risk at all for Americans. It's an ideological protest which is only going to draw ideologues. The rest of the students have other, more pressing things on their minds. The media is hyping this because it help their ratings.
Thanks for the description. Have you been down to check it out yourself? I have not bothered to go into Berkeley. To stressful.

A lot of these students are stooges of the far left AND the far right. Honestly, not much of a difference. All of it will be far more in service of the far right, though. Chaos almost always is.
 
All this is true. However, I don't call most of what's paid attention to "journalism". It's drinking from the fire hose.

Thanks for the description. Have you been down to check it out yourself? I have not bothered to go into Berkeley. To stressful.

A lot of these students are stooges of the far left AND the far right. Honestly, not much of a difference. All of it will be far more in service of the far right, though. Chaos almost always is.

I live near Portland, OR. The nearest university is a branch campus of Washington State that is, as far as I know, 100% commuter. There are no protests going on anywhere in the Northwest as far as I can tell.

The nearest protest apparently is at Cal Poly Humbolt. When did Cal State Humbolt become a Cal Poly? ( I went to Cal Poly SLO.)

This is the most comprehensive map I've seen
https://www.axios.com/2024/04/27/palestinian-college-protest-arrest-encampment

The bulk of the protests appear to be in the Northeast.

A historian named Colin Woodward has written a few books on the different cultures that make up the US. His first book is entitled "American Nations". Recommended to me by one of the moderators here. It explains a lot about how the US got to be the way it is. Most of the Northeast is what he calls the "Yankee" culture which is probably the most idealistic of the US cultures. The Left Coast culture that runs along the coast in California and along I-5 through Oregon and Washington and then on up the Canadian west coast to Juneau is related to the Yankee culture, though it more libertarian and independent.