Is there an audiologist in the house?

[Uncle Paul]

EZ way to measure damaging levels in your car.

If you can talk to your passenger with a normal voice...No damage.

If you need to raise your voice to converse...Damage, but only after extended periods of exposure.

If you need to shout...probably doing some damage in short order.

Not scientific : >) In my X i can even converse with the 2nd row passengers without raising my voice...very quiet car.

Usually, for older people they do not become deaf, but insensitive to some of the higher frequencies, usually worst around 4K Hz. Makes speech seem muffled, especially for higher pitched voices. Women especially difficult with higher voiced speech. Any background noise, or several people speaking at once usually makes it worse to understand.

Simple techniques to make people easier to hear clearly. Watch their faces. You will get some visual clues to their words. Most people do this easily. Also ask them to say your name before speaking. Gives you a moment to concentrate better, and pick up their meaning. (Did you walk the dog becomes clear. Don't expect to have them say...did you walk the frog : >)

 

[Hornedfrog1]

I am an otolaryngologist, so I have also seen my fair share of ears.

I absolutely agree that loud music is risk factor for noise induced hearing loss, whether that is from inserts, OTEs, your home Sonos speakers or your Tesla’s sound system. Anything hitting your drum at over 85 dB is suboptimal for your cochlea. You’re correct that sound energy dissipates the further you get away from the source, but you have to remember that the EAC is only about 2 to 2.5 cm long. So there’s not a ton of energy disapated over that length (classic teaching is about 5-10 dB).

In my practice, I can’t remember the last pediatric patient who presented with permanent noise induced hearing loss. In fact, despite the fact that earbuds are not a new phenomenon (remember all of the people walking around with their Sony Walkman earbuds in the 80’s) a big study published last year showed that the rate of hearing loss seems to be dropping across the board in patients aged 20-69.

View attachment 277500

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaotolaryngology/article-abstract/2592954

I don’t disagree with you that we need to be reinforcing the importance of protecting our ears around loud noises, but I think you’re catastrophizing the earbud situation.

I hadn’t seen that study. Maybe our education tactics are working. Glad it appears to be dropping.

 

[Hornedfrog1]

Is there a credible iphone app that would measure decibels while in my car? It'd be good to know highway vs local decibel levels, and naturally it would also be good to know based on your post what volume level on the stereo keeps me below 85dB. Left unfettered, I'm likely to CRANK IT, if for no other reason than reviews seem to consistently agree that the premium stereo offering in M3PUP is fantastic (for all but the true audiophiles; I am not one). Thank you.

If you can find a good app with good reviews it should give you a fun baseline for comparison. I’m not sure how truly accurate they are but several of the ones I’ve played with seem to be pretty good though I wouldn’t base any scientific evidence off of them since they haven’t been truly calibrated to the ANSI Standards. I wouldn’t spend any money on one either. The free ones I have used have seemed to work fine. Just make sure someone else is with you so you can concentrate on the road. Sounds silly I know but sometimes people do things they shouldn’t.

 

[Got-EMF]

I used to think that my ears ringing in the morning was just part of my hangover. I wear muffs when mowing the grass now. Twenty plus years in the bar/music business has taken it's toll. At least one ear is better than the other. Maybe I look like a dog that angles it's head when trying to listen to something!

 

[Lasttoy]

I must have missed it, who has a whine from their motors? I have taken over 100 people for rides. Very first comment is, This car is silent...
No one has ever said they could hear any motor noise. I have 110k miles and mine is so quiet. I love the silence .

 

[SSedan]

12yo niece was so struck by the silence when we transitioned from old pavement to brand new she said something immediately.

Well made large electric motors don't tend to make much noise, it is cheap high rpm motors that are loud, and often a lot of that noise is from the cooling fan.

 

[ElectricTundra]

A couple of thoughts.

Our Model S is the loudest car (worst insulation/damping) from a road noise standpoint of any we've owned in some time. This btw is based on measurements with a spectrum analyzer, not just our judgement. It can be quieter on extremely smooth roads but very significantly louder on average or rough roads. This is possibly the thing I most dislike about our S and what is keeping my wife from buying an X to replace her aging ML350. That said, it's not loud enough to cause any hearing damage.

In-ears are not, contrary to what @Hornedfrog1 said, necessarily more damaging. It all depends on how loud you have them. We use custom molded in-ear Westone's on stage. They seal in to the ear canal far more than any consumer in-ear and yet we don't experience hearing damage from them. As with over the ear headphones or ambient sound it depends on how loud the sound is and what frequencies. It's simple air pressure - 77db (measured in your ear canal) from an in-ear or ambient is still 77db. It just takes a gob less energy to generate 77db in a sealed ear canal than an unsealed on.

 

[ElectricTundra]

Is there a credible iphone app that would measure decibels while in my car?

Credible is a matter of definition. I have two on my iPhone that are quite close to our spectrum analyzers. One is Decibel X and the other dB Volume Meter. Audio engineers won't rely on them (mic in iPhone is the culprit) but for relative measurements in your car they should be OK. At one time you could get a USB mic for less than about $50 that worked quite well on iPhones but have no idea who made or makes it.

 

[SSedan]

Yeah road noise wise they could have done better, but that is well below hearing damage level.
Exactly what tires you have, how old they are, and treadwear uniformity all play big roll in road noise.
If shocks or alignment are imperfect letting the tires wear funny a quiet tire can get loud.

 

[MarkS22]

Is there a credible iphone app that would measure decibels while in my car? It'd be good to know highway vs local decibel levels, and naturally it would also be good to know based on your post what volume level on the stereo keeps me below 85dB. Left unfettered, I'm likely to CRANK IT, if for no other reason than reviews seem to consistently agree that the premium stereo offering in M3PUP is fantastic (for all but the true audiophiles; I am not one). Thank you.

Have a look at an app called SPLnFFT. The microphone on an iPhone isn’t optimal, but it’ll give you a very good idea of the levels including db(A), which is weighted for relative loudness to the human ear. The spectrum analyzer is particularly nice and I’ve used it to gauge the sound levels of road noise and HVAC.

I don’t believe the high frequency whine comes anywhere near 80db, but now you have me curious as to the frequency. I’m guessing it’s over 8,000Hz and gets lost in the white noise of the road and wind.

 

[FlyF4]

In my experience with electric cars, road noise is a bigger factor than motor noise. Given the relatively low decibel levels encountered, I can't imagine any hearing loss being attributed to motor whine.

Precisely what I was thinking. There are lots of other much louder noises than the low motor whine.

 

[FlyF4]

I am a Doctor of Audiology. What everyone needs to know is that it’s actually the power/loudness of the noise that is dangerous and is measured in decibels, dB. In terms of danger it’s actually the low frequency sounds that are more dangerous so the boomer bass cars are destroying their hearing rapidly. 60 dB is the loudness level of the average human voice in conversation. Constant exposure to an 80 dB sounds for 8 hours will start to do permanent damage and here’s the scary thing....for every 5 dB increase in loudness, the time of exposure for damage is cut in half. By the time you’re dealing with a lawn mower, which is around 100 dB you’re looking at only about a half an hour of constant exposure before permanent damage is done. A rock concert at 120 dB or greater....you’re looking a seconds of exposure for permanent damage to occur. I can’t even hear the motors in my car but the road noise is strong so I think you’re ok with the motors. The rule is, hearing protection hearing protection hearing protection around noisy things. What you’re describing is a high frequency hearing loss...which is the loss of the sounds of speech which allow us to differentiate between similar sounds. This only gets worse in background noise so boat sounds like coat, bat and cat, dog and log, etc. it can be brought on by age and or noise exposure. Take the insert earphones out of your ears. You’re ruining your hearing. The rule is...if you can’t hear voices easily around you with headphones, it’s too loud. I suggest finding a licensed Audioogist in your area, not a hearing aid dispenser, and get your hearing tested for a good baseline.

Your quote... "60 dB is the loudness level of the average human voice in conversation." You haven't met my wife have you? Oh wait, you said average human, so she isn't average

Nice information. I think I knew most of that, but nice detail.

 

[Hornedfrog1]

Your quote... "60 dB is the loudness level of the average human voice in conversation." You haven't met my wife have you? Oh wait, you said average human, so she isn't average

Nice information. I think I knew most of that, but nice detail.

Lol! Average is a RELATIVE term. My relatives would definitely say my volume level is well beyond 60 dB on average. I’m glad yall are well educated. Safe travels.

 

[SMAlset]

Your quote... "60 dB is the loudness level of the average human voice in conversation." You haven't met my wife have you? Oh wait, you said average human, so she isn't average

Nice information. I think I knew most of that, but nice detail.

I'm sure you meant she's above average.

I was in a car accident when I was a child, no seatbelts back then when car rolled a few times, and ended up with ear bleeding and high pitch loss, couldn't hear crickets at night in the midwest when sleeping on side with that ear exposed. When I went back to school after the accident couldn't really hear what kids were whispering to me in that ear either. So kind of know what OP experiences when he can't differentiate voices in background. It is frustrating. Normal range tests fine thankfully. Stuff like that does make you more of aware of what a gift our hearing is and how much you can miss without all or parts of it.