strider
Active Member
I haven't noticed this but have not specifically checked for it. Why have you not had the contactor replaced? Ours was replaced for free.
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How to get P85 to full power
- Thread starter raphy3
- Start date
I finally got a chance to test my video with a high precision player. For those wondering, MPC-HC can display milliseconds. Using that I got 4.103s for 0-60. I would probably ignore the two last significant digits and say this is good enough to call it 4.1s. SOC was 75% and outside temp was 88 degrees. That's within spec of course. But in that same trip I was easily able to get dashed lines to limit me to 310kw just by going fulll throttle at 85mph. That seems to mirror @Muffinman 's experience. I will have to find out if the contactors have been replaced. While I'm at it, I need to just look into the TSBs in general and see what all has been done and not done on the car. I still haven't received my cable to test with the cantact. It's amazingly being shipped in circles all across the state by USPS....
strider
Active Member
How many 0-60 runs did you do before the full throttle at 85mph? I think you're just dealing with heat build up in the motor.
strider
Active Member
Weird. We were sent a note from Tesla asking us to bring the car in for replacement. Here's the thread:
Proactive Contactor Replacement
OK. Sorry for the long radio silence. I finally got some data. I have not taken data during a 0-60 run yet. This data is from passing other cars on the road. So I floored it, but let off the gas very quickly. I'm not sure if I got to full throttle for long enough for limitations to kick in or if I lifted my foot too quickly. I tend to let off the gas very quickly in passing situations like this; only use enough to get around. That said, max power was 361kw (red is power, blue is voltage). It remains to be seen if the drop off is due to me lifting off the foot super fast, but you can see a definite negative slope, not a flat plateau at max power. 361 was sustained for like fractions of a second. It seems the average might hover around 355kW. I'm concerned with the voltage drop. All the way down to 300V. That is no where close the to "mid 300s" the SC told me. As you can see, with resting voltage at 400V the SOC is nearly 100% for this data. Tomorrow I'll attempt to get data for 0-60 starting from complete stop. BTW, 355kw is 476hp, which is the spec that this car is supposed to get. But, if it can't sustain 355-360kW for any kind of extended time period, I will be much more worried. The jury is still out. I need to get to the interstate and go full throttle there too to see what we're dealing with as far as the dashed lines limitations; put some real data behind the perception. So to sum up, this is an initial data set, zoomed in on a ful throttle event to pass someone. More to come very soon including 0-60 and full throttle at high speed.
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oh, and before I forget to mention this tomorrow, special thanks for @llavalle for help on both capturing and deciphering the CAN bus output. Using that, plus notes on the bus identifiers that @wk057 published a while back which he pointed me to, I made a decoding script that took inspiration from @llavalle's, and added some plotting functions. Despite most people seemingly using OSX or Linux to do this, it was amazingly easy to get this working in Windows.
Did a couple off pulls myself today. SOC@70%. This time the current did not drop abruptly from a steady 1170A to >900, but rolled back gradually. Also, no dotted line indicating power limitation on the instrument panel. There has been a couple of OTA updates since last time, and it appears things have changed. Not performance wise, but this way it will be more difficult to tell that the power is being limited after a few seconds. I guess Tesla is reading the forums.
BTW, voltage dropped to a "whopping" 26x volts while doing the pulls. Kinda low, isn`t it?
BTW, voltage dropped to a "whopping" 26x volts while doing the pulls. Kinda low, isn`t it?
yeah that sounds low. I don't see how you are getting high performance with 260V at 900A. I mean that's a measly 234kW. It would feel very slow and pokey to me at that level. How many miles do you have again? That is at the level where I probably wouldn't accept it unless it was understandable that the car was really old and had tons of miles on it.
In my case it's interesting, the voltage drops down to 300 but the current stays high enough to give the spec power. It does kind of sound like software tweaks. However, I have been able to easily bring in dashed lines since the last update (have not tested it with cantact). OTOH, I seem to get updates very late. I just now (like a couple days ago) got the one that puts the little arrow tab thing on the top of the "about my car" page. So, Tesla could do all kinds of things to try and save the battery because they are otherwise drawing too much current from it, but they have to walk a fine line and also deliver the performance I paid for. I see a very easy path down a slippery slope where they say "well if we do <x,y,z> then we can stop the battery from degrading abnormally and we won't have to replace it. The battery is degrading abnormally when they are running their car at "P" levels of performance though. well, maybe they won't notice if we just dial back their performance. maybe we can blame it on the TC?" lol. kind of joking; hopefully they are not going down that kind of road. The numbers from the CAN bus don't lie. I'll keep checking until I'm satisfied. Let's hope that a future update doesn't remove communication through that connector...
About 77k miles. Also, car has been in for checking battery capacity due to abnormally low nominal full pack/range readings. They did a calibration that consisted of draining the battery to 2% using hvac, leaving it overnight before supercharging it and reviewing data. Tesla`s verdict was that it had a higher capacity than indicated, and that it would correct itself over a some time. A small correction occured then it stabilized at still a lowish level. Apparantly i might have the 85 in Norway with the largest degradation for this model year with sightly more than 220 miles at full charge. Odd thing the estimate goes a bit down when doing long charge cycles at long trips. One would expect the oposite.
I never got my answer to if they consider nearly 10% loss normal. Reading can values from comparable cars it seems that 3-5% would where it should be.
I never got my answer to if they consider nearly 10% loss normal. Reading can values from comparable cars it seems that 3-5% would where it should be.
I've read many times that ideal miles are a better indicator of degradation due to the way that range is calculated. Indeed, the percentage degradation when using ideal miles is less than when looking at rated miles. I have 61,500 miles and my ideal range at 90% sits at 261 miles. This translates to 290 miles at 100%. When new the car did 301 miles at 100% = 3.7% degradation in four years and just over 61,000 miles.
Based on rated range, I get 251 miles at 100% (265 when new) = 5.3% degradation.
Based on rated range, I get 251 miles at 100% (265 when new) = 5.3% degradation.
I have heard that 3-5% is the norm as well. Of course, that is an average. If you look at the plots on teslanomics, for instance, you see there is a big scatter, and probably large error bars on that 3-5% unfortunately. This may mean that 10% could be normal. It depends on how many standard deviations it is away from the 5% fleet average. I would say a couple std devs would be acceptable, but even tesla should balk at seeing 5 std devs away and call that "not normal", IMHO.
My rated range is often being reported at higher than what even Tesla told me, and at times higher than the spec for the car, at 259 miles. Yet, I drive with energy app open all the time, and predicted range is always a good 30% lower than rated. I could see how ideal should be a better measure of degradation, because it is a proxy for battery capacity, and does not take into account anything like driving habits, like predicted range does. What are you getting for ideal?
I use typical range in kilometers (just converted to miles for your convenience). Maybe typical equals ideal? Think it`s better to use canbus values, and nominal full pack value stabilized around 72kWh. Drops a little when going for longer trips and using longer charge cycles. Based on myself having can-read quite a few vehicles over time and also on readings that aquaintances have done the norm for a car like this should be around 75kWh. Second lowest I know of was around 73kWh, but his cars reading climbed quite a bit when being left for a few hours fully charged. Tesla left my car fully charged for two whole days after their calibration excercise, failing to get my car`s nominal value to bounce into what seems to be normal territory.
Not a big problem until the car is to be sold. But having had no other battery issues and without the main power switch replaced I think the odds for a repair coming sometime are significant. Maybe things will be corrected then.
Way off topic now, aren`t we.
Not a big problem until the car is to be sold. But having had no other battery issues and without the main power switch replaced I think the odds for a repair coming sometime are significant. Maybe things will be corrected then.
Way off topic now, aren`t we.
llavalle
Member
Maybe, except that any time you get a repair done in the battery, you could hope for a bump in specs, both voltage and current draw, bringing you one step closer... to full P85 power! If the repair does happen I'd appreciate hearing about the result, as to whether something happens to improve your power output (understanding it might take a while before they decide to finally do it).
Ah yes the C# code should have clued me in! Seems some others in some of the other scripts I've seen were using a 'nix variant as their serial ports were along the lines of /dev/ttsy0 etc.You're welcome sir. I'm also running that on windows
I will put some CAN readings on drop box in a little bit and ask you to check with your script to make sure the numbers I got are correct (if you get the same numbers than my parsing is probably correct).
llavalle
Member
so @Muffinman, I can confirm that I see the same thing as you were seeing when I do WOT at high speed on the interstate. When I saw the dashed lines telling me I have a power limitation, I kept it floored and watched the dashed lines slowly move downwards. Well, current clearly was creeping towards 900A and power dipped below 300kw both times during this test. This was around 65% SOC.
These two pics show the voltage, power and current. Note that as the current drops, the voltage increases. This is the opposite of what I see at WOT at lower speeds. Here is some data WOT for a few seconds to go from 20-65 mph at around 64% SOC:
Note that voltage drops the whole time I'm at WOT, and dashed lines never show up. The current stays clamped at ~1150. Power output is well above 300kw, like 330kw. Totally different behavior from the interstate test. This hints to me that the software limitation on power output is not as much there to protect the battery (I'm clearly stressing it plenty in these other tests), but perhaps is there more to protect the motor, as some folks elsewhere in the thread have mentioned that it'll heat up.
Here is a 0-60 run with SOC at ~70%:
Current stays flat at average ~1150. Max output power is 336.6kW. Current peaks at 1170 for some of these pulls at stop lights but always gets brought back to 1150 quickly.
So normally current looks good. max power of 336kW at 70% SOC is probably OK. Something crappy happens with current at high speed and WOT. Clearly current is getting cut because the voltage immediately climbs when that happens. BTW, here is the evolution of my voltage at rest over that whole drive:
It goes from about 375 to 367 (the flat parts are where there is no power draw except for AC); that's 72% to 62% SOC.
These two pics show the voltage, power and current. Note that as the current drops, the voltage increases. This is the opposite of what I see at WOT at lower speeds. Here is some data WOT for a few seconds to go from 20-65 mph at around 64% SOC:
Note that voltage drops the whole time I'm at WOT, and dashed lines never show up. The current stays clamped at ~1150. Power output is well above 300kw, like 330kw. Totally different behavior from the interstate test. This hints to me that the software limitation on power output is not as much there to protect the battery (I'm clearly stressing it plenty in these other tests), but perhaps is there more to protect the motor, as some folks elsewhere in the thread have mentioned that it'll heat up.
Here is a 0-60 run with SOC at ~70%:
Current stays flat at average ~1150. Max output power is 336.6kW. Current peaks at 1170 for some of these pulls at stop lights but always gets brought back to 1150 quickly.
So normally current looks good. max power of 336kW at 70% SOC is probably OK. Something crappy happens with current at high speed and WOT. Clearly current is getting cut because the voltage immediately climbs when that happens. BTW, here is the evolution of my voltage at rest over that whole drive:
It goes from about 375 to 367 (the flat parts are where there is no power draw except for AC); that's 72% to 62% SOC.
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