Yeah, it really feels like a blackmail scenario for me, too. And I hope it won't work. Now there is this article in the German newspaper and we all know the press. Once it is out in the wild it will easily get picked up by other press.
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Hansjörg von Gemmingen Roadster pack out of juice?
- Thread starter Model S Man
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Yeah, it really feels like a blackmail scenario for me, too. And I hope it won't work. Now there is this article in the German newspaper and we all know the press. Once it is out in the wild it will easily get picked up by other press.
Exactly. I have been on the receiving end of such tactics, and they do NOT work. I don't like bullies. You make threats and any compromise that might have been under consideration is gone, period.
In my experience, following through on the threat to go public usually backfires. It's hard not to be amused when they get flamed.
Johan
Ex got M3 in the divorce, waiting for EU Model Y!
However, this guy actually doing what he has probably done (i.e. a lot of range cahrging on an aging battery) does prove in feal life that it's very detrimental to the battery. And it also puts focus on the fact that Tesla need to come out with some clear guidelines as to how much/often you are advised to range charge the Model S (also supercharging, all though this seems to be less of an issue than previously thought, at least with the 85kWh battery).
If you want to drive exactly 145 miles per day, every day for 1035 days, you will hit 150,000 miles ( 241,400 km ).
If the battery degrades linearly to 70% original capacity by the 100,000 mile mark, your max range will hit 189 miles after 488 days and 71920 miles.
189 miles max range mode will be 145 miles in standard mode ( assuming standard charges to 87% of range mode, and hides the bottom 10% ).
If you aren't comfortable in standard mode, and start charging in range mode at that point, that means that for the next 547 days you will charge in range mode, which is a lot.
If you wait until standard mode ( including the hidden 10% ) is 145 miles, that would be at max range of 167 miles - which would happen at 697 days and 101065 miles. That means for the next 338 days you will charge in range mode every day.
At 905 days and 131225 miles your max range will drop to 145 miles and you will no longer be able to drive 145 miles on one charge. However I bet that charging every day in range mode after 100,000 miles will make the range drop faster than it was for the first 100,000.
If the battery degrades linearly to 70% original capacity by the 100,000 mile mark, your max range will hit 189 miles after 488 days and 71920 miles.
189 miles max range mode will be 145 miles in standard mode ( assuming standard charges to 87% of range mode, and hides the bottom 10% ).
If you aren't comfortable in standard mode, and start charging in range mode at that point, that means that for the next 547 days you will charge in range mode, which is a lot.
If you wait until standard mode ( including the hidden 10% ) is 145 miles, that would be at max range of 167 miles - which would happen at 697 days and 101065 miles. That means for the next 338 days you will charge in range mode every day.
At 905 days and 131225 miles your max range will drop to 145 miles and you will no longer be able to drive 145 miles on one charge. However I bet that charging every day in range mode after 100,000 miles will make the range drop faster than it was for the first 100,000.
Jaff
Active Member
No kidding...Hansjörg should realize that he's not helping his case by refusing the Tesla tech's request to inspect the car and logs thoroughly, and attempt a rebalance...hard to feel sympathetic for him when he won't cooperate...
Sadly, you are taking the best case scenario for the vette. One can play with numbers and come up with anything that suits their case.
I will give you my scenario with a performance ICE car, driven like most would drive it. Has ~600rwhp, gets around 14-16mpg at best (babied), and about 23-24 on the highway also babied. At the track, that changes to 1-2mpg, and if you drive it to have fun(who wouldn't if you have the power). It gets between 3-8mpg. Granted, this car is quite a bit quicker/faster than the roadster, but it also gets better mpg than most in that power range(great tune). Now get this, if I drive the car daily(it's very docile at idle and cruising it if you dont step on it), I get to put about $50-70 in gasoline in it every 2-3 days(takes all of the fun out of it). A roadster doing the same duty would cost me less than $50 a month(electricity here is around 6 cents per kwh). That is a huge difference in fueling costs.
Zzzz...
Member
With all due respect, while I agree that blackmailing should not work and do not like bullies too... Unfortunately sometimes blackmailing works not in favor of the company that received the threat.
There was that Canadian guy on American airliner. He got pissed of for whatever reason, threaten company that he will post something on Youtube, if his demands will not be met. His threat was not taken seriously...
After press gave canuck lots of attention and his view count hit multiple millions, United Airlines tried to play it back. They offered to meet all demands of the guy plus give him extra compensation.
It was too late.
You can Google "united breaks guitars".
I would be thrilled to get 150k miles out of a first gen roadster battery that uses off-the shelf laptop cells. The battery warranty was only 3years or 36k for most roadsters. I really dont understand the entitlement attitude of these guys that have a bad battery and want a free one, let alone a free car. Pretty sad really.
I remember the video. That worked because it was funny. Also the airline did rather jerk him around.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
A US example, 150,000 miles with a 20mpg vehicle uses 7,500 gallons, at $4 per gallon that's $30,000, with a 15mpg vehicle it's 10,000 gallons and $40,000. At $5 per gallon it's $37,500 and $50,000. In comparison an 85kWh pack at 265 miles per charge for 150,000 miles is 48,113kWh's, at 11 cents per kWh equals $5,292, if you have a reduced night rate it would be even less. Depending on the individual parameters an EV may indeed save you money.
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Absolutely. Headline: "Used Roadsters Get Better Than New Range and Performance With New Pack, EV's Get Better With Age".
*The above quote is not yet a reality but was pulled from the future, or my imagination. :wink: Apologies to anyone who got their hopes up for a minute.
Do you or does someone here know for a fact that the Model S battery is LiNiCoAlO2? I called Tesla and the person I spoke with did not know what the battery chemistry of the Model S was - despite doing a lot of searching in their knowledge base while I waited on the phone. The only thing I've found is that Model S has "Lithium ion" batteries.
Thanks.
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Saving money not spent on fuel to pay for an eventual battery replacement is a good way to think about it. But it doesn't seem that I would be saving any money driving an EV over an ICE vehicle. The Model S is just way too expensive. I guess if you compare Model S to a used Bentley or Porche Panamera, etc or other $100k car, then I guess I might come out ahead financially with the Model S (someone please confirm this with actual numbers if possible).
But mostly, I'm getting the Model S b/c 1) I don't like to waste my time having to go to the gas station 2) don't want to pollute environment driving an ICE vehicle and 3) want to be free from the whims of OPEC - not b/c I expect to "save money". If I wanted to save money, I'd buy a cheaper, efficient car such as a Volt.
Talkredius
Member
100 % agreed, and I want to add there are more German Tesla drivers which don't agree with him and they all have driven lots of km e.g.
Talkredius : 121.000 km
Eberhard : 111.000 km
UdoW : 95.000 km
Tron : 75.000 km
He also mentioned that he was asking many hotels for charging possibilities , never heart of that (outside of Facebook, because I'm not a FB member) but others do like Tron, Eberhard, me and many others. And we publish these in our German Forum and the European website for charging stations LEMnet - Internationales Verzeichnis der Stromtankstellen so that other EV drivers can use them.
Not sure that he blackmailed them. The story is he tried for a year to get them to fix the guitar they broke. They refused. He went YouTube on them. Then, they tried to settle.
This (and the 40k bricking story) seem very different.
Talkredius
Member
in general you are right if we are looking at the costs right now but :
- I don't know any one who he is driving an ICE comparable with the Model S at 6,5 l /100 km over the Autobahn, should be more like 9... 10 l / km :wink:
- higher prices for electricity isn't an issue for me, it will only encourage me harder to put solar panel on my roof and put a battery to store this energy into my cellar
juwi, a company which is building huge solar plants is already addressing this and offers batteries for home use Solarspeicher, Batteriesystem, Batteriespeicher, Smart-Meter - juwi Home Power© (sorry, only in German available)
- the maintenance cost of the Roadster are 1/2 of my VW Passat, also the Roadster is a handmade sports car. based on 60.000 km p.a.
Zzzz...
Member
Yes, that was confirmed in multiple articles, like:
Motor Trend,
Musk interview
etc.
But TM do not advertise, nor promise that they will continue to use LiNiCoAlO2 cathodes. Moreover, TM position is that they have multiple battery cells suppliers, with only some (Panasonic) being publicized to date.
So de facto, LiNiCoAlO2 would be there. But if something will happens to Panasonic or if cheaper chemistry will become available they could switch anytime.
Guitar neck got broken. Have he used proper guitar case? Apparently not. Have he clearly market his bag as "fragile"? Have he got insurance for it? If he would have done any above mentioned things, there would be no story.
But he got pissed, started demanding money, threaten company that he go social media way... If he actually had the case, there are courts. But unfortunately for airline that story could be presented in a way that make them look bad. At least by most out there. People do not like to think.
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But after 150k-200k miles you won't have to worry about engine or transmission repair/replacement costs either. I am really stuck on the silent smooth ride.
I think even with heavily degraded batteries (assuming at least 100 miles of range) the Model S will have very high resale value, as mileage really won't be a big concern. And the true health of the car is pretty much on display as battery range.
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