FSD price is going up... to WHAT PRICE?

[Non Sequitur]

@mreynolds767: yes, as a very early delivery my hardware is 2.5, not 3.0, it is true.
I guess the reason I'm reluctant to throw more $$ at FSD at this point is because I barely use the EAP I have: I can't even figure out how to do the parking! And when I'm on the road, unless I'm fatigued or stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic I would probably never use EAP. I'd only be interested in FSD to (i) give peace of mind in 2 years when my kid is driving it; (ii) to be in the robotaxi fleet; or (iii) to drive overnight long distances I currently fly to, all of which is to say: not anytime soon. I guess if robotaxi happens, I'll be making so much money from it, I can decide at THAT time to pay whatever FSD costs at that point. Presumably Elon will WANT to encourage EAP car owners to sign up (bigger the fleet, the more money for him too), so I guess that also argues in favor of waiting. Plus I can invest that $3K in stocks and watch it shrink to $2K (or maybe even 1K), and who'd want to miss out on fun like that?

 

[Dan203]

Based on what they've been able to accomplish so far I think we're still a few years away from real self driving and many, many, more before the regulators allow Tesla to create a driverless robo taxi service. So don't buy into the whole "appreciating asset" thing. Even if they got full self driving working tomorrow it would still take years for the laws, insurance, etc... to adapt. So making money loaning your M3 out as a robo taxi is unlikely. Even if regulators allow this the insurance you'd have to carry for it would likely make it impractical for most people. You're essentially allowing strangers to ride in your car with no supervision. The potential for damage is high. Plus you're making money from it. I think the insurance companies will have something to say about that.

I decided not to get FSD myself because it felt like I'd be paying $6k to be a beta tester for a feature I really wouldn't get a lot of use out of for at least a few more years. And since I'm leasing I wasn't confident they'd give me any real useful functionality before I was forced to trade it in.

 

[Non Sequitur]

@Dan203, I totally agree I would not opt for FSD on a lease. I own, but I agree with your statement that this is still years away, and though I expect to own it for several years (and will probably see the day when it happens), I'm also mindful that 'accidents happen', and any number of things, including an accident, could happen before my extra $3K bears fruit.

 

[OCR1]

It’s already overpriced so if they raise the price even more that makes it an easy decision. We bought EAP on our first Model 3 and it was very obvious to me that it’s not ready yet so on our second Model 3 I didn’t waste money on it and I have no regrets.

 

[raptor5244]

This is one of those topics where I hate to post my opinion, because I know it's not going to be popular among the forum audience...

I have to preface this by saying I have zero regrets about buying my car. It is, by a very large margin, the finest vehicle I have ever owned. Tesla is now my car brand; I honestly don't think I'll ever buy any other marque again in my remaining years.

The only area that I'm disappointed in is the autopilot/FSD. Yes, I know it's still early in the game, but IMO, it is not nearly as far along in the development process as Mr. Musk is telling everyone. They keep saying "it's all about chasing the long tail", referring to all the digits to the right of the decimal point. And I completely agree with that. The problem is that they are no where even close to being to the first digit to the right of the decimal point. In its current state, AP/FSD is nothing more than a curiosity.. a toy to play with on the road, not even close to being a useful tool yet.

The vehicle I traded in for my Tesla was a 2016 Honda Accord with Lane Keeping Assist and Advanced Cruise Control. Man, I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but the LKA and ACC worked better in that car than my Model 3 with FSD. The Honda never phantom braked, held the lane perfectly, and had far smoother braking and acceleration when following a vehicle than my Model 3. Sure, it didn't do navigate on autopilot, but the core functionality of keeping a lane and following a car with cruise control was much, much better. Just improving the core functionality of lane keeping and car following would have a positive impact on how drivers view AP/FSD, IMO.

I have no doubt that Tesla will get there, and we will eventually have the robo taxi fleet Mr. Musk talked about during the Autonomy Day presentation. But it is going to be much further down the road (please forgive the unintentional pun) than his very pie-in-the-sky timeline he gave during Autonomy day.

Still, I don't regret paying for FSD. To me, it's like backing a Kickstarter project that I believe in at this point. Mr. Musk has, for the most part, always delivered on what he says he's going to accomplish (sure, there are a few exceptions, but he's delivered on the major stuff), including producing a car which, to me, is the finest vehicle I've ever owned. If it's possible for him to produce the best car I've ever owned, is it possible for him to make it drive itself? I think so... eventually.

And honestly, the car is so fun to drive that I don't want the computer to have all the fun!

It all boils down to your opinion... Do you believe in Mr. Musks' vision? Do you think he'll be able to pull off what he says he's going to? Are you willing to help him out financially to do so? I answered yes to those questions. No, I don't think he'll pull it off according to his timeline, but we all know that Elon's space/time continuum is much different than the rest of the population of the planet.

We all have differing opinions on this, and I respect all of them. Vote your opinion with your wallet.

Now pardon me while I put on my flame suit... Be gentle, gents.. I'm old and fragile.

Voice of reason. I think most will agree with you once they stop drinking the Kool-aid and honestly evaluate the software for what it is. I wish they would program some useful stuff with all these cameras in the meantime while they spend years working on FSD.

For example, in your Honda you probably had that blind spot monitor camera in the passenger side mirror that would show a camera shot on the display when your turn on your blinker. I mean why can't Tesla program something like that in with all the cameras on this car. Also, the blind spot monitoring system is weak to me. They should work on that some more so there are better indicators if someone is in your blind spot. Maybe change the color of the vehicle icons on the display or something. No rear cross traffic alert is a big miss for a car like this. I just don't understand how a car can have a goal of FSD if it can't even detect rear cross traffic.

The irony is that they are building a self driving system for a car that is super enjoyable to drive. I mean if this was a Toyota Corolla or something I get it but I actually look forward to driving this car.

 

[raptor5244]

It’s already overpriced so if they raise the price even more that makes it an easy decision. We bought EAP on our first Model 3 and it was very obvious to me that it’s not ready yet so on our second Model 3 I didn’t waste money on it and I have no regrets.

I find it odd that they increasing the price on something that is still not delivering much value. They could have kept the car prices flat and lowered the price of FSD. They go and offer the fastest acceleration for only $2k (Performance upgrade to the AWD) but they charge $6k for stuff that you can't really make much use of (AutoPark, Summon, NoA).

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I doubt they'll raise the price for EAP to FSD.

It doesn't do Tesla any good to have EAP owners because they're in a weird spot where they sorta of have FSD, but not really.

It's in Tesla best interest to get those people to FSD so they have HW3.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

I find it odd that they increasing the price on something that is still not delivering much value. They could have kept the car prices flat and lowered the price of FSD. They go and offer the fastest acceleration for only $2k (Performance upgrade to the AWD) but they charge $6k for stuff that you can't really make much use of (AutoPark, Summon, NoA).

Supposedly the price increase is tied to the release of Enhanced Summons.

But, that feature as it seems to exist (at least with early access people) doesn't seem all that compelling.

I don't believe the price increase will happen on time (tonight at midnight). Instead it will likely be delayed by weeks.

 

[Knightshade]

Also, the blind spot monitoring system is weak to me. They should work on that some more so there are better indicators if someone is in your blind spot. Maybe change the color of the vehicle icons on the display or something.

They do. If your turn signal is on any car in that direction in your blind spot turns red.

No rear cross traffic alert is a big miss for a car like this. I just don't understand how a car can have a goal of FSD if it can't even detect rear cross traffic.

Because it won't ever need it. We've been over this particular one like 20 times now.

The car backs into spots (it already does so in fact) when perp parking- so it would always exit forward into traffic, not backward.

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

The car backs into spots (it already does so in fact) when perp parking- so it would always exit forward into traffic, not backward.

On the off chance that there is a car on each side, and you're able to get the self park to work.

Eventually Tesla will have an auto park that works, and will always back in.

But, that's years away. In the meantime they really should have rear-cross traffic alert. It would be a heck of a lot more useful than Emergency lane departure that they added.

 

[Kognos]

I still firmly believe they should price features a la carte.

I fully understand why they are doing things the way they are, but there's huge value for going the way I'm advocating. Want NoAP / Lane changes / summon? Then they can offer the EAP package again. Or they can even split that up.

What people get bent out of shape is the idea of buying features that don't exist OR are in beta. But when it's both, that's rough. $3k to upgrade from modern-Autopilot to legacy-EAP (adding the features above) is fair and reasonable if you like those features, but 6k to upgrade to what is now FSD is basically spending 3k more on a promise. Some are ok with that, but I see that as paying 6k for 3k worth of features.

The other advantage is that this style of upgrading gets them money in the bank for zero effort. Going from modern-Autopilot to legacy EAP is solely a software enablement. FSD adds the FSD computer and other features later, potentially, to the EAP package as it exists now. But if it were split up they could get 3k out of people wanting to do incremental upgrades to EAP, then they'd be in the same boat as everyone else - choosing 3-4k for the upgrade to FSD computer and city driving stuff. Makes total sense to me.

I for one don't like the leap from Autopilot to FSD. I prefer incremental steps.

 

[WilliamG]

They do. If your turn signal is on any car in that direction in your blind spot turns red.



Because it won't ever need it. We've been over this particular one like 20 times now.

The car backs into spots (it already does so in fact) when perp parking- so it would always exit forward into traffic, not backward.

Not just in the parking instances is rear cross traffic RADAR useful. e.g. in any busy city you’ll have occasions where the road has cars parked on both sides and someone needs to reverse when you encounter a car coming toward you. What’s the Tesla going to do in this situation? I know I have had to reverse partially across an intersection in situations like this. With rear cross traffic RADAR this is much safer.

 

[jebinc]

Dollars to donuts, the price of FSD at the close of business tomorrow will be the same as it was today.

 

[OCR1]

They do. If your turn signal is on any car in that direction in your blind spot turns red.



Because it won't ever need it. We've been over this particular one like 20 times now.

The car backs into spots (it already does so in fact) when perp parking- so it would always exit forward into traffic, not backward.

Most of the shopping areas that I go to have angled parking spots where backing into them is not an option.

 

[Eugr]

Most of the shopping areas that I go to have angled parking spots where backing into them is not an option.

Plus it’s really inconvenient when shopping as you would have limited access to the trunk.

 

[Knightshade]

Most of the shopping areas that I go to have angled parking spots where backing into them is not an option.

Good news- since it's angled even if you pull forward into the spot you're not later backing out 90 degrees into 2-way traffic with your entire view to traffic blocked both ways by other cars so rear cross traffic alert isn't needed then either- the rear camera alone gives plenty of visibility to the 1-way oncoming traffic that might exist.

 

[raptor5244]

Because it won't ever need it. We've been over this particular one like 20 times now.

The car backs into spots (it already does so in fact) when perp parking- so it would always exit forward into traffic, not backward.

Agree to disagree on this one, again. It is unrealistic to always back into a parking spot. Angled parking spaces, crowded parking garages, paid parking lots where they check for stickers or licenses plates (no front plates in Florida). Furthermore, if we expect the car to drive in reverse for any period of time it should be able to detect crossing traffic just as if it were moving forward.

Many are caught by surprise when they learn their future self driving car is missing a pretty common feature found on new cars.

 

[raptor5244]

Good news- since it's angled even if you pull forward into the spot you're not later backing out 90 degrees into 2-way traffic with your entire view to traffic blocked both ways by other cars so rear cross traffic alert isn't needed then either- the rear camera alone gives plenty of visibility to the 1-way oncoming traffic that might exist.

You keep defending the car and saying it is not needed. Of course it is not needed, we have been driving around for decades without a backup camera. We creep slowly backward and actually turn our heads and look over our shoulders. However, backup cameras became mandatory because they help prevent accidents and the same is true for rear cross traffic alert. The point is a car like this should have this capability at a time when this feature is becoming standard on many cars. It just seems like an oversight to me and many others.

 

[Knightshade]

Agree to disagree on this one, again. It is unrealistic to always back into a parking spot.

I never said you'd "always" back into all spots though- so you're strawmanning again.

I said it'll back into perpendicular spots. Which is what the car does... right now...today... when auto parking. There's nothing to argue about- ti's literally what it does.

So it'll never need rear cross traffic there, since it's pulling out forward.

Angled parking spaces

Where you won't back in, and nobody ever said you would, but you also won't be reversing blind into 2 way traffic so you still don't need rear cross traffic- as already explained to you, multiple times, so it's weird you keep bringing that up as if it was actually a relevant objection.

paid parking lots where they check for stickers or licenses plates (no front plates in Florida).

No front plates in NC either- but I've yet to see a 2-way-traffic perp. parking area where backing in was actually prohibited... can you link to any actual examples of that?

Furthermore, if we expect the car to drive in reverse for any period of time it should be able to detect crossing traffic just as if it were moving forward.

...when/why are you "driving in reverse" for any long period of time into cross traffic?

Many are caught by surprise when they learn their future self driving car is missing a pretty common feature found on new cars.

Agreed- a shocking number of people drop lots of money on things without doing due diligence or any research at all.


Seriously though Tesla has a lot of weird "Wait, it really can't do that basic thing?" gaps.

The nav system on my giant touchscreen can't handle waypoints- something my 15 year old Garmin can do, let alone anyone elses nav system in the last decade or more.

The "auto" wipers lack a $2 sensor that everyone else has used for reliable performance since the 1990s meaning when it rains it's like Wiper Roulette.

The car lets you set a time when charging starts... but weirdly NOT when it should stop.

All kinds of stupid basic crap like that...(without even getting into slightly more complex stupid crap like how weak the voice command options are- or how incompetent they are as an actual business- unable to figure out how to bill their own customers for premium connectivity- or how their own CEO apparently didn't know some places weren't doing loaners anymore, etc...)



So it's not like I defend all the dumb gaps on the cars features or them as a company (insert body panel fit joke here).


But this one is pretty much by design- it's objectively safer (regardless of cars systems) to back into perp. parking spots- so that's what the car does when it parks itself, so it always expects to be pulling forward, not backward, out of such spots.

 

[raptor5244]

No front plates in NC either- but I've yet to see a 2-way-traffic perp. parking area where backing in was actually prohibited... can you link to any actual examples of that?

Some towns and many college campuses enforce this.

You can get a ticket for backing into a parking spot in Pinellas County

Citations | Transportation & Parking Services