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No. EAP can be purchased for $6000 and then FSD can be subscribed to for a $100/mo as opposed to $200/mo if you don't have EAP.Absolutely! After all the false promises, price changing, hardware versions, and future speculation, I don’t know why anyone would pay $15K for FSD. Subscription model is the way to go! Isn’t there also a cheaper EAP subscription now?
If Apple treated releases the same way that Tesla does:
Hi! I'm Tim Cook, and I'm excited to tell you about some amazing new features we've been working on!
Starting with an amazing new version of Facetime, available on IOS 16.2.24, which launches between 2 weeks and 12 months from now exclusively for customers with iPhones older than 2022 who are subscribed to full-iCloud. IOS 16.2.24 is our most advanced release to date - not to be confused with IOS 17, which we launched a few months ago. IOS 16.2.24 leverages the cutting-edge features of our oldest phones - it's so advanced that it isn't even compatible with our latest hardware!
Next, we have re-enabled voicemail for customers with 2023 iphones on IOS version 17.2.13! This is the first of three features that used to be available that we are now re-enabling for new customers. If you've ever used visual voicemail on an iPhone and thought "I wish this basic feature that worked on my previous iPhone would work on the new iPhone I just purchased" - well, now it sort of works almost as well as it does on our older phones! The calendar and calculator apps also might be re-enabled at some point within the next few weeks or months. Or not!
Oh... and one more thing.... Later this year - or maybe next year - we will be combining the best features of IOS 16.2.24 and 17.2.13 into a single version available to everyone! <audience gasps> Just make sure you have advanced updates disabled and avoid opting-in to any interim bug fix releases until such time as the yet to be announced version is available, which as previously stated may or may not be released this year or next.
Either way, make sure you are subscribed to full-iCloud to take advantage of all of these new features or none of them, depending on your phone.
Welcome to Tesla, the company. The cars are great, but the company is often a bit chaotic, and Elon's statements tend to be more aspirational than they are realistic. Service and parts departments are under stress from rapidly increasing fleet size. So patience is a necessity.Wow... this thread was such a shocker.
I just bought MX with HW4 couple of weeks ago (my first tesla). And, I am willing to give Tesla $15K more to try out FSD Beta. But, I have no idea when it will be available or it will even be possible to tell that FSD Beta is available for my vehicle when it is actually available.
What a mess. I can't imagine paying for any goods or services such high amount where there is such an uncertainty about actually receiving the said goods or services.
Osho
If I were the system architect, the FSD software directly associated with the sensor hardware would build and continually update a computer model of the car's world of roads and traffic etc. Quite separate from that software you'd have other software concerned with relating the forgoing model to a model of the mapping and an associated model of the intended route. Other software relate the forgoing to instructions from the driver both instantaneous and stored as driving objectives. The segmentation of software means a great deal of it does not have to talk to the hardware and instead references only what it needs from internal computer models of whatever may be relevant in the world. Those internal models may take essentially equivalent forms regardless of what hardware sensors were used to infer them. That means that somebody with old sensors and an old autopilot computer can potentially still enjoy at least some of the newer software. A big factor is computing power. Old computers are not apt to have the necessary computing power to respond as rapidly to developing situations. So I'd guess old hardware may ultimately lead to less snapy response to evolving traffic situations meaning less efficient driving with lane changing opportunities missed, more turns missed etc. Also the new hardware has higher resolution cameras so distance perception is improved and again a better chance to respond most efficiently to situations. I'm just guessing of course, but my guessing is based on a significant background with what is called real time software - which is a generic software term that applies to FSD.Another question is how HW4 fits into the current upgrade path, and does that mean there will be yet another branch?
I can definitely see a difference in distance perception. The distance that the car displays traffic lights in the binnacle is borderline unbelievable. The lights show up several seconds earlier on a 40mph road on hw4 than 2.5. Don't know if it matters though, based on some other posts I've seen it looks like a majority of stoplight and stop sign interactions come from map and gps data as several folks report the vehicle still slows on previously removed lights.Also the new hardware has higher resolution cameras so distance perception is improved and again a better chance to respond most efficiently to situations.
Technically correct, but it's now over 400,000,Beta is in the hands of over 100,000 "testers" in the US and Canada
Actually the post that you quoted is probably closer to the real number of testers. The "400,000" number has its origins in the recall notice for all cars in the US with FSD. Some percentage of those are testing FSDb.Technically correct, but it's now over 400,000,
Me. Funny thing is I haven’t been prompted for the update. I hope it stays that way as I don’t want the chance for something to go awry by accident. Wonder if I wasn’t prompted by design, since I purchased FSD and the mothership knows to not send a higher version update than the one that is coming.Well, it looks like 2023.12.x is now running on the majority of vehicles across the entire fleet, the only real exception being cars with FSD beta that are still on 2022.45.X.
I am still on 2023.6.11 dutifully closing the upgrade prompt window every morning for fear that the next wide release of FSD is still 2023.6.15 as previously reported:
Tesla Releases FSD Beta 11.4: What's New
The latest advancements in Tesla's Full Self-Driving Beta 11.4 update, featuring enhanced safety features, improved driving performance, and smarter navigation.www.notateslaapp.com
On the one hand, it seems odd that Tesla would push 2023.12 out so aggressively (it's the widest / fastest release of any 2023 build to date) right before merging FSD beta to an older 2023 branch - but then again nothing about the release cadence has made much sense so far.
Who else is with me in the 5% (and shrinking) 2023.6.X club?
Unlikely. Telsa is indiscriminate.Me. Funny thing is I haven’t been prompted for the update. I hope it stays that way as I don’t want the chance for something to go awry by accident. Wonder if I wasn’t prompted by design, since I purchased FSD and the mothership knows to not send a higher version update than the one that is coming.
Wouldn’t there have to be some distinction? If both a FSD and main branch update were to be available, let’s say after a delivery of a new vehicle, how would it know which version to push otherwise?Unlikely. Telsa is indiscriminate.
I think that is possible - I was stuck on 2022.X factory firmware while subscribed to FSD and opted in to beta. I was prompted to upgrade to 2023.X the very next day after my subscription expired - I don't think that was a coincidence. Had I renewed the sub for another month, I probably would have stayed on 2022.X and would have gotten the beta a few weeks later like most of the other 2022 firmware peeps.Me. Funny thing is I haven’t been prompted for the update. I hope it stays that way as I don’t want the chance for something to go awry by accident. Wonder if I wasn’t prompted by design, since I purchased FSD and the mothership knows to not send a higher version update than the one that is coming.
The problem with this is FSD Beta is not yet an official product or a feature of the FSD Capability package. The list of features you get are on the website and Autosteer on City Streets (AKA: FSD Beta) is listed as "coming soon". So when you subscribe or buy the FSD Capability package you are not getting FSD Beta. That is something Tesla MAY (or may not) choose to let you try.I think that is possible - I was stuck on 2022.X factory firmware while subscribed to FSD and opted in to beta. I was prompted to upgrade to 2023.X the very next day after my subscription expired - I don't think that was a coincidence. Had I renewed the sub for another month, I probably would have stayed on 2022.X and would have gotten the beta a few weeks later like most of the other 2022 firmware peeps.
If only there was a way to know how to actually get FSD beta.
Here is the ideal user experience IMHO:
When subscribing or purchasing FSD, a pop-up window appears:
"Important Note - FSD Beta is not yet available for your vehicles firmware. Please choose from the following two options:
- Activate my subscription now and activate FSD Beta when available [NOTE - This will temporarily suspend software updates]
- Automatically activate my subscription when FSD beta is available for my vehicle. [Note- This will temporarily suspend software updates]"
Or Tesla could simply just tell us which version we should be on if we want the best chance of being eligible for FSD beta... Nah, that's crazy talk.
John
Agreed on the beta part, but:The problem with this is FSD Beta is not yet an official product or a feature of the FSD Capability package. The list of features you get are on the website and Autosteer on City Streets (AKA: FSD Beta) is listed as "coming soon". So when you subscribe or buy the FSD Capability package you are not getting FSD Beta. That is something Tesla MAY (or may not) choose to let you try.
Unfortunately in general Tesla and transparency with clear instructions is an oxymoron.Agreed on the beta part, but:
a) It's still not unreasonable to provide clear instructions..... but a little more transparency and proactive communication couldn't hurt.