Florida solar utility liability insurance requirements

[holeydonut]

Man, no way will I cancel my 2 million policy add on. I guess some of it might matter on what your home is worth and or total net worth

I think X-Pilot meant people get the $1mm rider to send to the PoCo for PTO, but then cancel their rider after PTO. This assumes the insurance company doesn't update the PoCo with the change to the coverage on the home.

You probably just need to add PG&E as a "named insured" to your existing umbrella. Hopefully it doesn't cost much extra. I'm also with State Farm and have a combined $2mm home insurance + umbrella for the family. But my agent hasn't gotten back to me with a quote for adding PG&E as a named insured.

 

[holeydonut]

My State Farm rep got back to me... first of all, he says in his 20+ years of doing this... I'm the first person to ever ask him about having the PoCo included as a named insured on my homeowners insurance. I can't tell you how many "this is a first..." I've heard trying to get this blasted PV+ESS installed on my goddamn house.

We also think it's funny PG&E won't help buy insurance to the millions of homeowners in California when PG&E's equipment catches our homes on fire. But now PG&E wants to be insured if my tiny solar array causes them damage? The CPUC is stupid for allowing this double standard to occur. Some insurance companies even dropped homeowners in Contra Costa County since PG&E's fire risk was too high. Where's PG&E helping those homeowners? Jerks.

Anyway, he says things are all screwed up due to the Midwest being frozen in a giant ball of ice. So, right now State Farm isn't offering any underwriting feedback; especially for weird requests like this. But, he thinks the following:

1) Using State Farm's $1mm Umbrella rider won't work for this PG&E requirement because the umbrella isn't expressly attached to the home. And the umbrella doesn't have the language that PG&E wants covered under the liability insurance* (see below). He also thinks State Farm's underwriters won't allow PG&E to be added as a named insured on the umbrella.

2) He thinks I need to up the total of the homeowners liability (the portion in excess of the actual dwelling coverage) to have what amounts to a $1mm liability for things outside of the dwelling. So I'm looking at a total $2.5mm coverage instead of $2.0mm (or I can maybe drop the umbrella, but that kind of defeated the purpose of the umbrella). He admits it's stupid to have such a high total home insurance when the core property just doesn't reasonably call for it.



All in, he's thinking if State Farm's underwriters even allow PG&E to be a named insured, then it'll be about $100 extra premium per year. All these stupid costs keep adding up... from PG&E wanting a $800 NEMMT interconnect fee to higher insurance, this going green business is a total scam.




* Note: PG&E needs these express terms in the portion of insurance they are named on...

Premises-Operations, Owners and Contractors Protective, Products/Completed Operations Hazard,
Explosion, Collapse, Underground, Contractual Liability, and Broad Form Property
Damage including Completed Operations

 

[winfield100]

i’m in SW Florida in Cape Coral on LCEC
i have an 11,655 (DC) derated to 9,907 (AC) so tier 1
i would have liked a 50% larger or more system but felt constrained to stay Tier 1
house is all electric, pool,heater, led’s etc, plug in small electric.
use around 9,000kwh/yr
produced 17,200 in 2019 and 17,400 in 2020
(Enphase microinverters, etc)
I also think Tier 1 should also be at least doubled or tripled.
pool heaters are energy hogs and i now underproduce when it is on.

Also need f ew batteries as during the day I send my excess electricity out at around 2 cents a kwh and buy it back at around 8.5 cents at night.

 

[mstgkillr]

i’m in SW Florida in Cape Coral on LCEC
i have an 11,655 (DC) derated to 9,907 (AC) so tier 1
i would have liked a 50% larger or more system but felt constrained to stay Tier 1
house is all electric, pool,heater, led’s etc, plug in small electric.
use around 9,000kwh/yr
produced 17,200 in 2019 and 17,400 in 2020
(Enphase microinverters, etc)
I also think Tier 1 should also be at least doubled or tripled.
pool heaters are energy hogs and i now underproduce when it is on.

Also need f ew batteries as during the day I send my excess electricity out at around 2 cents a kwh and buy it back at around 8.5 cents at night.

I’m a LCEC customer and live in Cape Coral as well. However, it is my understanding that any power provided to the grid during the day, is credited back the customer during the night at an equal rate. And, any credit is carried over to the next month, but paid out at the end of the year at the wholesale rate.

 

[winfield100]

then we probably are on
MONTHLY RATE:
RATE RS
The net metering rate schedule for residential non-demand electric service is as
Energy Charge:
All kWh per month @
Total Energy Charge
(Continued on Sheet No. 27.200)
$19.22 minimum
8.21¢ /kwh
from the rate tariff sheets
https://www.lcec.net/pdf/RateTariffSheet.pdf
however, i discovered my assumptions are incorrect except that i need both a much larger array and batteries
after doing a spreadsheet of 72 months with the last 23 with the PV system, plus time shift loads

 

[darktears31]

I got a warm response to my letter to Commissioner Graham, from his Chief Advisor. Even though I did not mention this forum in my message, it was mentioned in the reply, so PSC staff are watching this and probably other threads. If you have comments about the Florida liability insurance requirement, you will find the effort to write well worth your time. Even adding comments here are worthwhile, they'll be read by people who can and want to take action.

Summarizing the response, the Commissioner seeks to require utilities to provide their history of actual liability claims filed against consumers operating solar generation. When the net metering rule was written, it was unknown what the risk would be so the PSC supported cautious insurance requirements. Net metering is coming up for periodic review, and Commissioner Graham is expected to ask for a review of the related insurance requirements to align the policy with the actual risk.

I'd like to thank the Florida PSC for their thoughtful consideration of my message. I encourage Florida residents to join the conversation.

What was the review result? Is it posted online? This is still a requirement as of 02/2021. I did email the commissioners again asking for an update.

 

[darktears31]

What was the review result? Is it posted online? This is still a requirement as of 02/2021. I did email the commissioners again asking for an update.

Replying to myself, it seems like a workshop was run in September 2020. Here is the link: Renewable Generation Workshop - Florida Public Service Commission

The presentation from VoteSolar actually highlighted the issue with the insurance requirements.

 

[holeydonut]

I'm still wondering how you Floridians got your homeowners insurance underwriters to put your PoCo as a named insured on your policies.

I guess your PoCos don't have a habit of causing the untimely deaths of rate payers (fires and explosions).

 

[Bboud]

I had the same situation occur with Tampa Electric when I had my system installed. The adding of a $1 million liability limit to my policy cost me $28.00 a year through State Farm. Much to do about nothing

I would love to get the info for the agent you used at State Farm, that would help me out a ton

 

[Bboud]

I had the same situation occur with Tampa Electric when I had my system installed. The adding of a $1 million liability limit to my policy cost me $28.00 a year through State Farm. Much to do about nothing

I would love to get the info for the agent you used at State Farm, that would help me out a ton. Thanks!

 

[Bboud]

Sorry, didn’t see that posted twice. I would be stoked to get whatever info I can regarding cheap options for adding that umbrella policy from anyone and everyone. Thanks again

 

[ErrMagerr]

So here is my ten cents. It suits FP&L and other utilities to have small capacity PV installations out on the end of the grid. It soaks up peak demand at the height of summer for powering air conditioning systems. What doesn't suit them is not making any money from homeowners with grid-tied PV systems. There is no net increased risk to their linemen from 16kW versus 10kW.

There is/was a lawsuit led by Achim Ginsberg-Klemmt that made its way to the Florida Supreme Court arguing that the utilities were being allowed to set their own rules ( among other arguments ). I am going to try to touch base with him to see if the case has been ruled on or not.

If you do the math, it does severely dent the ROI on any increase in capacity and is quite clever. You are not allowed to exceed prior usage by more than 15% so a 16kW system might be the most many of us would need or be able to install and the increased cost of something like $7k to $10k is hard to justify with an increase cost of insurance of $300 or more. I don't even have homeowners insurance so for me, the increase is massive.

 

[slave0418]

You probably want to send the letter to the Florida Public Service Commission, they're the regulator. Welcome to the PSC Web Site - Florida Public Service Commission

I did file a complain but it is a known fact that DUKE alone has 2 lobbyists per 1 state representative working for them. Go figure. $$$$$

 

[pileosnafu]

So here is my ten cents. It suits FP&L and other utilities to have small capacity PV installations out on the end of the grid. It soaks up peak demand at the height of summer for powering air conditioning systems. What doesn't suit them is not making any money from homeowners with grid-tied PV systems. There is no net increased risk to their linemen from 16kW versus 10kW.

There is/was a lawsuit led by Achim Ginsberg-Klemmt that made its way to the Florida Supreme Court arguing that the utilities were being allowed to set their own rules ( among other arguments ). I am going to try to touch base with him to see if the case has been ruled on or not.

If you do the math, it does severely dent the ROI on any increase in capacity and is quite clever. You are not allowed to exceed prior usage by more than 15% so a 16kW system might be the most many of us would need or be able to install and the increased cost of something like $7k to $10k is hard to justify with an increase cost of insurance of $300 or more. I don't even have homeowners insurance so for me, the increase is massive.

I belive he lost

 

[LandToSea]

I have run into a new snag with my solar installation and insurance. It appears my agent never notified Edison of the change although they were aware as they wrote the umbrella policy specifically due to the FPL requirement. In the process of a refi now and when getting a replacement value estimation Edison came to realization that the solar existed. They will now cancel me as they will not insure properties with solar. Who is everyone in S FL using for their homeowners policies?

 

[Redhill_qik]

I have run into a new snag with my solar installation and insurance. It appears my agent never notified Edison of the change although they were aware as they wrote the umbrella policy specifically due to the FPL requirement. In the process of a refi now and when getting a replacement value estimation Edison came to realization that the solar existed. They will now cancel me as they will not insure properties with solar. Who is everyone in S FL using for their homeowners policies?

I would have thought that Edison was your power company not your insurance company. Any idea why the won't insure homes with solar panels? Is it the FPL liability part or concerns about hurricane damage?

 

[LandToSea]

I would have thought that Edison was your power company not your insurance company. Any idea why the won't insure homes with solar panels? Is it the FPL liability part or concerns about hurricane damage?

This has nothing to do with the liability coverage, separate insurer. South FL options for home insurance are dwindling and those still active are getting more restrictive. As of yet I have not found a new company that will insure a non coastal flood region home built in 2002 with a new metal roof installed 2y ago and SOLAR.

 

[TeamSolar]

I have run into a new snag with my solar installation and insurance. It appears my agent never notified Edison of the change although they were aware as they wrote the umbrella policy specifically due to the FPL requirement. In the process of a refi now and when getting a replacement value estimation Edison came to realization that the solar existed. They will now cancel me as they will not insure properties with solar. Who is everyone in S FL using for their homeowners policies?

Did you end up getting this resolved?

 

[LandToSea]

Did you end up getting this resolved?

I am told that there is only one option right now after speaking to several agents. The premium with the new company that will cover solar is now 40% higher than I was paying with Edison at the same replacement value. The insurer is Tower Hill Preferred. My home was built in 2002 and I was told there is another option or two for more recent construction.

 

[TeamSolar]

I am told that there is only one option right now after speaking to several agents. The premium with the new company that will cover solar is now 40% higher than I was paying with Edison at the same replacement value. The insurer is Tower Hill Preferred. My home was built in 2002 and I was told there is another option or two for more recent construction.

Any chance you can send me a private message? Not at all trying to sell you anything, but am happy to provide as much insight as you might like. I apparently am not allowed because I just made the account.