Fast Charging Damages Car Batts? True or False????

[4palmer]

Fast Charging Stations Damage Tesla Car Batteries After Just 25 Charging Cycles
By News Staff | March 14th 2020 05:31 AM | Print | E-mail

News Staff
aper shows that a selling feature of electric cars, fast-charging stations along highways, actually subject batteries to high temperatures and high resistance that can cause them to crack, leak, and lose their storage capacity.

What is needed is a method for charging at lower temperatures and therefore less risk of catastrophic damage and loss of storage capacity. A recent experiment did just that. Scientists charged one set of discharged Panasonic NCR 18650B cylindrical lithium-ion batteries, found in Tesla cars, using the same industry fast-charging method as fast chargers found along freeways. They also charged a set using a new fast-charging algorithm based on the battery's internal resistance, which interferes with the flow of electrons.

The internal resistance of a battery fluctuates according to temperature, charge state, battery age, and more. High internal resistance can cause problems during charging and the UC Riverside Battery Team charging method is an adaptive system that learns from the battery by checking the battery's internal resistance during charging. It rests when internal resistance kicks in to eliminate loss of charge capacity.

 

[drdumont]

What they say is true, more or less. However, comma, the Tesla Battery Management System modulates the charge rate according to the battery temperature and condition, and even cools or heats the battery as needed before Supercharging. The only gotcha here is you need to set the Supercharger as your destination and navigate to it in order to kick in the preconditioning. Even so, the BMS will charge according to the battery temp in any case.
There is a physical reason not to charge to 100% unless you are going to begin discharging it immediately. That also affects dynamic braking. (That's what we call regeneration on the railroad).
A lot of the EV and Tesla haters in particular quote this particular test as gospel.
It must be true, it's on the Internet!

 

[ellett]

Dumb and inaccurate blog post. That paper screwed up, and the blog made up a clickbait headline.
The experiment the paper discussed used batteries in isolation, not installed in a Tesla.
There is extensive reporting from Tesla owners, including from cars driven over 100,000 miles, and cars that Supercharge exclusively or primarily, that show that Supercharging has minimal effect on Tesla battery life/capacity.
You can't get accurate results if you drop a high voltage directly across the batteries. You have to supply the voltage to the battery management system, which then manages the voltage over time that's fed to the batteries.

 

[SlimJim]

Tesla warranty covers for 8 years.
I will sell the car before then. I don't really care.

 

[Salted]

Whoever wrote that sh** is giving yellow journalism a bad name.

All batteries have limitations, and just about all are sensitive to heat (exception being thermal storage, within higher limits). Managing those limitations is the trick, and why viable battery solutions don't just throw a bunch of raw cells into a box with thoughts and prayers.

How about testing the existing solution from Tesla? Supercharge a Tesla 25 times and see how the batteries fare. No? Oh, you want to approximate what the car BMS + Supercharger does using a flawed test to show they're smarter than you? Okay, got it.

 

[toolman335]

Tesla warranty covers for 8 years.
I will sell the car before then. I don't really care.

Yup this^^^^

 

[David_Cary]

So when you sell the car, you don't care about resale?
You have no concerns about decreased range that won't trigger the warranty?
How about decreased performance?
No concerns about the sustainability of battery powered vehicles?

I have a 5 yo Model S. My supercharging experience has been fairly limited. I have a throttled down charging speed because Tesla learned that it hurt the batteries. Tesla also learned that fast charging during colder battery temps hurt more which is why my regen at modest temperatures is now limited. Like at 60 degrees the other day - parked in a 60 degree garage the night before and left out at 60 ambient.

These are changes made over the last 5 years in algorithms. We are still learning about battery longevity.

My range is down some and I would fully expect a buyer to charge to 100% and see what the number is. It would absolutely not trigger any warranty at this point or within 8 years. It is not a big issue for me since we now have a 3RWD LR in the family.

But supercharge without concern all you want. Tell yourself it doesn't matter. Tell yourself that you are 100% confident that Tesla has figured this all out perfectly and defies the laws of physics/chemistry completely.

Heat speeds degradation. That is HS chemistry. Fast charging creates heat - HS physics. A robust cooling system helps. The Model 3 may have a significantly better cooling system. But it still can't defy basic laws.

And if you believe that supercharging has had no effect on Model S battery life, then why has Tesla changed the algorithms? Because they want to make owners buy new cars? Maybe - but not likely.

 

[toolman335]

If I get 7 years out of this car the resale value will be crap even if it somehow had zero degradation(I've had it for 6 months).
So no, resale value is of no concern.
When my car is 7 years old the technology will be severely outdated. Time for a new one!

The most likely scenario is that I'll give it to my boy in 5 years for his 16th birthday.

 

[T.F.S.]

I charge the car whenever it isn’t being used at 5a, I charge to 55/60%

if I need to charge it more I do but most of the time that’s fine for me.

 

[Watts_Up]

Fast Charging Stations Damage Tesla Car Batteries After Just 25 Charging Cycles paper shows that a selling feature of electric cars, fast-charging stations along highways, actually subject batteries to high temperatures and high resistance that can cause them to crack, leak, and lose their storage capacity.

What is needed is a method for charging at lower temperatures and therefore less risk of catastrophic damage and loss of storage capacity. A recent experiment did just that. Scientists charged one set of discharged Panasonic NCR 18650B cylindrical lithium-ion batteries, found in Tesla cars, using the same industry fast-charging method as fast chargers found along freeways. They also charged a set using a new fast-charging algorithm based on the battery's internal resistance, which interferes with the flow of electrons.

The internal resistance of a battery fluctuates according to temperature, charge state, battery age, and more. High internal resistance can cause problems during charging and the UC Riverside Battery Team charging method is an adaptive system that learns from the battery by checking the battery's internal resistance during charging. It rests when internal resistance kicks in to eliminate loss of charge capacity.

They didn't mention using liquid cooling like Tesla does. So this report doesn't seems truly accurate.

 

[Darmie]

Heat speeds degradation. That is HS chemistry. Fast charging creates heat - HS physics. A robust cooling system helps. The Model 3 may have a significantly better cooling system. But it still can't defy basic laws.

And if you believe that supercharging has had no effect on Model S battery life, then why has Tesla changed the algorithms? Because they want to make owners buy new cars? Maybe - but not likely.

Good point. Model 3/Y may have different cooling that will protect the battery better when fast charging. Only time will tell if there will be any throttling.

 

[pl8dlikafiddle]

The batteries were pretty much “cooked” during this test.

Heat is #1 enemy, and one of the reasons Tesla car batteries last as long as they do is due to the liquid cooling.

This test probably applies to what happened to first generation Nissan Leafs.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Tesla warranty covers for 8 years.
I will sell the car before then. I don't really care.

Most people are in your camp.

I am.

I don't care.