-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Electrician installed wall connector using Romex 8/3 + 60A breaker
- Thread starter explosive0
- Start date
exxxviii
Member
There are extreme, questionable, examples like this OP, but at the same time it seems there are many professional, experienced electricians recommending and installing #6 NM-B for 60A charging circuits. And they cite the NEC as well. 334.80 above allows adjustments as well as other areas in the NEC with the "excluding 334.80" clause. So it seems that electricians are making adjustments within 334.80 and not universally applying 60°C to all installations. It seems like the NEC may be unclear and this topic is debated among professionals who may have a deeper understanding of its application or intent.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
No
Article 330.80 is crystal clear to electricians. An electrician (or anybody else, for that matter) is welcome to look for an exception and you can quote it here. Moreover, you do not understand how corrections/adjustments are applied.
That is nebulous. Quote NEC
There is always the chance that people reporting second-hand what electricians say are misquoting or misunderstanding. E.g., it would not surprise me if the stories are actually about 14-50 receptacle installations.
Last edited:
Just through the drywall and some blue junction box behind the wall connector, then down the other side of the wall into the main breaker box.
I've gone back to using the mobile connector for now until this is resolved.
exxxviii
Member
No I don't. And that is why I am raising the questions...
I am not an electrician, but I am an EE, and I have had first-hand interactions with several electricians in my area as and read a number of credible first-hand reports of other EVSE installations here and on other forums by professional electricians. So, it makes me wonder if part of this is Internet Warriors adhering to a narrow understanding of NEC or the world has a lot of professional electricians doing it wrong.
Are you a professional electrician? When I was researching this a while ago and searching electrician forums, the applicability of 334.80, its exceptions, and history seem to be debated among electricians.
My father really had no choice in his... The electricians all specified #6 NM-B for his 60A hardwire installation. I think it was about a 20' run, but not in walls or within insulation. Every electrician was consistent that it was appropriate for the circuit, and that is what the one he selected installed. That was before I started researching further to try to understand.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I'll take your word for it. I keep imagining at least one stud or a top plate in between the jbox and the panel
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Some would say that the only answer is your local inspector, but the better answer is a correct reading of the applicable NEC. You can bring second hand stories here until you are blue in the face but they are worthless. Start with NEC code you think applies, and then there may be debate about missing exceptions, applicability, or interpretation.
But if you do not start with NEC you are in nowwheresville.
There is no such thing as a "narrow" understanding of the NEC.
Asking for my credentials is a fool's errand. What good will it do you to have two opinions at odds ? What are you going to do when two licensed electricians disagree ? Go to the source. Regarding source, local codes may only be more strict than NEC, never less. Local jurisdictions are allowed to choose which NEC to follow. I do not know what was allowed before 2017.
Last edited:
fiehlsport
Tire Guy
OP, just set your wall connector to 32A for the time being. You can still use it safely.
Also I just noticed he used 8/3... so you paid for a Neutral conductor that isn't being used as well. Seems like this was the guy's first EVSE. *facepalm*
Also I just noticed he used 8/3... so you paid for a Neutral conductor that isn't being used as well. Seems like this was the guy's first EVSE. *facepalm*
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
This is why I do my own work as far as possible. I like to know it's done right.
SSonnentag
埃隆•馬斯克
This is why I always recommend folks have work permitted and inspected. While I agree the NEC is clear the understanding among professionals is not ...at least from my experience. Here in MD one electrician will tell you #4 NM-B, another #6 NM-B, and yet another will want to only do #6 in conduit.
I think with EVSE it needs to be more cut and dry to avoid all the debate. I would always rather be too safe then sorry later on but that is just me.
I think with EVSE it needs to be more cut and dry to avoid all the debate. I would always rather be too safe then sorry later on but that is just me.
exxxviii
Member
Here's what I mean by a narrow understanding of the NEC. One installer insisted that a disconnect was absolutely required by NEC for a hardwired EVSE. He was adamant that his company would not allow him to install the device without the disconnect. In your professional opinion, is this an appropriate application of the NEC or a narrow application of part of the NEC? (This was literally my first-hand interaction. It is second-hand to you, but please consider it credible. And it would be impossible to promote it to first-hand to you without pursuading that electrician to post on this forum.)
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
SE cable is not NM-B
My understanding is per the 2023 NEC, 625.43 which says
Note that a local jurisdiction may have stricter rules.
Last edited:
Is there any benefit of Romex over MC? Guessing with the Romex, you just pay for the extra connector. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen a Romex 4/2.
These are my options, but the Romex #4 is more than double the price of the #6 MC
Elliott Electric Supply - Lower Cost, Quality Electrical Supplies, and Personal Service
Elliott Electric Supply - Lower Cost, Quality Electrical Supplies, and Personal Service
In the mean time, I'll swap up to a 40A breaker and set charger to 32A.
These are my options, but the Romex #4 is more than double the price of the #6 MC
Elliott Electric Supply - Lower Cost, Quality Electrical Supplies, and Personal Service
Elliott Electric Supply - Lower Cost, Quality Electrical Supplies, and Personal Service
In the mean time, I'll swap up to a 40A breaker and set charger to 32A.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Exactly what I asked him, and he was rambling about "all the connectors I have installed required neutral". "This looks different from what I've installed". After probing, I realized he's only done outlets for the mobile connectors.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
MC is greasy,
You have to know how to cut it;
It leaves sharp ends;
You have to know how to prevent the ends from damaging the conductors;
You have to install it into the j-box correctly
It is less flexible than Romex, and has a different bending radius
That is off the top of my head, before my coffee
I wouldn't trust this guy with MC then.
I'll just ask for Romex, count my losses and move on. I'm just glad I caught it before this turned into a bigger issue down the road.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
Meaning, receptacle installations that are probably either 14-30 or 14-50
I'm willing to bet that a fair bit of confusion between what electricians say and what gets posted on the internet stems from receptacle Vs hard wired installs.
Last edited:
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
IF it can be found, and IF it can be installed. That cable is a *lot* more unwieldy. In a naked wall --sure. Behind drywall ? I'm far from certain, but then I don't have a good grasp of your run. You also need to check that the TMC terminations are listed for #4 AWG. You also need to be sure that the jbox is big enough for the box fill per 314.28
Did you ask yourself if 32 Amps (about 7.6 kW) is not adequate ? I think you could fairly ask the "electrician" to steeply discount his bill to leave things as is, but with a 40 Amp breaker. In any case, do yourself a favor and check the termination torques. Then check them again in a few months.
Similar threads
