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Electric vehicle rebate and 'ute tax' killed off in December 2023
- Thread starter heltok
- Start date
No, petrol vehicles don't pay RUCs...
I think it's perfectly fine for EVs to pay the same rate as the other vehicles subject to RUCs.. Why should they get a further discount, they use the same road, weigh the same, take up the same amount of space.
Once again, RUCs pay for roads, they are nothing to do with emissions. There's a carbon tax paid by fuel companies, if you think that needs adjusting, knock yourself with letters to the editor or your MP.
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Yeah, they do. It's the fuel excise tax component of fuel and it's the equivalent of RUC for petrol vehicles
Once again, as per the above, the RUC that is paid by petrol vehicles is tied to emissions. So I'll ask again, why do you think emission generating vehicles should pay less towards the roads than their EV equivalents?
You are trying to make it about emissions, but it has nothing to do with emissions, it is about paying for the cost of building and maintaining roads. No point discussing this any further.
JFC it's not a hard concept to grasp lol. Because petrol vehicles pay RUC via the tax component of petrol, the amount they pay is determined by the fuel efficiency of their vehicle. The less fuel they use, the less tax they pay which means less RUC they pay per km. The amount of RUC a petrol vehicle pays is tied to the emissions of the vehicle.
How do you not understand how it does though??
Take a RAV4 Hybrid with a fuel efficiency of 5.3L/100km, or .053L/km. The RUC component of petrol is $0.70, so if you apply that to the efficiency, it's 3.7c/km
Take a Ford Ranger Raptor (petrol version) with a fuel efficiency of 11.5L/100km or .115L/km. The RUC component of it is 8.1c/km.
Did you notice how the vehicle with the lower emissions has the lower per km RUC cost?
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It doesn't, despite your fervoured desires for to. If you search the RUC Cost Allocation Model paper, the word emissions appears twice, once defining what the E in ETS is, and the other in a footnote "The classification does not include externalities such as congestion, noise or emissions. These costs are not directly part of the roading system"
So once again, despite you needing it as an excuse to justify why you should not pay your fair share of the costs of providing the roads you drive on, it has absolutely nothing to do with RUCS.
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So you're just going to ignore the math above? The math that shows you how a lower emission petrol vehicle contributes less to the cost of road maintenance? How that goes against that everyone should pay their fair share?
Either you're playing dumb for some stupid agenda or you really just don't understand.
No, I agree that some of the more efficient petrol cars are not paying enough and all petrol cars should be brought into RUCs asap but that
A) has nothing to do with emissions
And
B) is not justification for you and me and every other EV driver not paying our fair share.
Ok, so I guess it's the latter of the two options. Since I assume nearly everyone else understands how RUC in petrol vehicles is tied to emissions, I'm going to move on from your deficiencies...
No one here is arguing that EVs shouldn't pay RUC. However, the government should not be incentivizing petrol hybrids over zero emission vehicles, which they will be doing by keeping them on a lower per km RUC rate than EVs. The government has made it pretty clear that petrol vehicles will not be going onto RUC in the next three years so with that in mind, a new weight class should be added to RUC that puts EVs on a similar rate as what hybrids will be paying. You know, so used Nissan Leaf isn't paying double per km compared to a similarly priced used Prius or Aqua.
No one here is arguing that EVs shouldn't pay RUC. However, the government should not be incentivizing petrol hybrids over zero emission vehicles, which they will be doing by keeping them on a lower per km RUC rate than EVs. The government has made it pretty clear that petrol vehicles will not be going onto RUC in the next three years so with that in mind, a new weight class should be added to RUC that puts EVs on a similar rate as what hybrids will be paying. You know, so used Nissan Leaf isn't paying double per km compared to a similarly priced used Prius or Aqua.
| Fuel Excise tax | 77.4 | c/l | Per 1000km | ||
| Fuel Tax | RUC | Total Tax | |||
| RAV4 | 5.3 | l/100km | $ 41.02 | Nil | $ 41.02 |
| Ford Ranger Raptor | 11.3 | l/100km | $ 87.46 | Nil | $ 87.46 |
| Corolla Hybrid | 4.0 | l/100km | $ 30.96 | Nil | $ 30.96 |
| RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid | 1.0 | l/100km | $ 7.74 | $ 53.00 | $ 60.74 |
| EV | Nil | l/100km | Nil | $ 76.00 | $ 76.00 |
We are getting screwed.
It’s worth reading through the Waka Kotahi consultation paper that makes some recommendations on how RUC could be implemented better - last review was 2012 but the new government has taken the easy option and not considered any of it.
Moderators note:
I am obviously too late to stop the above flame war as I can’t be here all the time.
I have edited a number of posts and deleted one and will place 48 hour bans on both protagonists.
Please remember that you can have different opinions and remain respectful.
I am obviously too late to stop the above flame war as I can’t be here all the time.
I have edited a number of posts and deleted one and will place 48 hour bans on both protagonists.
Please remember that you can have different opinions and remain respectful.
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Fabulous chart mate. Very compelling.
I’ve said it before but it bears saying again - the move to RUC for EVs and petrol cars is ad hoc and foolish policy.
RUCs are an inefficient method of taxation especially for EVs. The tax was intended to recover the cost of heavy diesel trucks damaging the roads. This was before the era of diesel cars, so later on Euro passenger diesels got hit by RUC also. Now in the absence of a more modern policy solution to capture EVs in road maintenance, the government has simply applied an old tax to a new problem - RUC. The adverse effect is shown in Charl’s chart.
Secondly, RUC ignores fuel efficiency. Pay at the pump petrol levies are charged based on how little petrol you burn. RUC is solely based on distance travelled, and essentially makes no distinction between a 3.5 tonne Ute and a Nissan Leaf in terms of volume of fuel consumed, air pollution or road damage.
Finally, RUC is more bureaucratic to enforce and is harder on poorer households. Some folks do not have $760 lying around to pay NZTA for RUC, whereas they can afford $20 of levies at the pump.
All this speaks to a lack of thought at the highest level of government regarding transport policy, road maintenance & emissions. The CCD is dead because some noisy voters whined, rail still has to pay for its tracks, EVs now have to pay too much, while trucks receive more welfare support to continue tearing up our roads. Anyone who thinks we truly have “user pays” is dreaming.
After many submissions, and acknowledgement they voted on the wrong stuff in the first place, the government sends us this new tax message:
| 91 Octane Fuel | 262 | c/l | Per 1000km | ||
| Fuel Excise tax | 77.4 | c/l | |||
| Fuel Tax | RUC | Total Tax | |||
| Corolla | 4.9 | l/100km | $ 37.93 | Nil | $ 37.93 |
| RAV4 | 5.3 | l/100km | $ 41.02 | Nil | $ 41.02 |
| Ford Ranger Raptor | 11.3 | l/100km | $ 87.46 | Nil | $ 87.46 |
| Corolla Hybrid | 4.0 | l/100km | $ 30.96 | Nil | $ 30.96 |
| RAV4 Plug-in Hybrid | 1.0 | l/100km | $ 7.74 | 38 | $ 45.74 |
| BEV | 0.0 | l/100km | $ - | 76 | $ 76.00 |
In that it was never going to work. The price of used EV'S jumped by the amount of the subsidy.
Does anyone know what the price of new Teslas did? They sure started selling a lot so I am.guessing they only padded it a little.
I did the sums and RUC and EV is still cheaper to run on 'fuel' than petrol hybrid RAV4 unless my sums are wrong. That should be plenty enough incentive to get an EV.
The losers are the halfway house PHEV owners that do larger milage than they should. They were only popular as a tax dodge I believe.
If you were going to do bigger milage than the plugin allowed you should have got a regular hybrid. If you weren't then a little EV would have been the go. The new RUC regime makes that rationale unavoidable so it's a good thing.
The remaining PHEV's will get sold to low milage folk at a discount and there will be no more.
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