$2,000 (or $2,500) can't remember.
Everyone is different, but knowing what I know now about my travel habits, it's not worth it.
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$2,000 (or $2,500) can't remember.
Everyone is different, but knowing what I know now about my travel habits, it's not worth it.
cpa
Active Member
I agree with this approach. I have dual chargers, and I have availed myself of 70A-80A charging about 10 times in 18 months while traveling. Of course, a lot depends on where you go and how much time you have. It has been convenient for me to stop for 90 minutes instead of 3 hours to add 80-85 miles of range. At least here in the West, dual chargers open up a few more highways that are off the interstates and Supercharger highway. In fact, I plan on taking some back roads through central Oregon in May. Klamath Falls and Burns both have 70/80A L2 chargers that will permit me to charge for 3 hours each time while I grab a bite to eat and amble about. (I am not part of the group that is occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge!) I would not make that trip if I were limited to 40A.
Moreover, possessing dual chargers reduces congestion at destination chargers if there are multiple Tesla owners competing for a charge.
One last item that I might throw in: A good example for dual chargers would be at Mammoth Lakes here in California. Mammoth Lakes has a Supercharger under construction. Mammoth is a popular ski resort during winter and a popular hiking/fishing resort in late spring into early autumn. There are 3 or 4 properties with 80A destination chargers in Mammoth. It would be easy for a driver who wants to ski all day Sunday and then unwind with a leisurely meal before heading back to LA or the Bay Area to utilize a destination charger for 2 hours and add 115 miles of range during this interval. This way, the SC are not clogged for 2 hours or his dinner is not interrupted to go move his car.
Enjoy your new car, you won't be disappointed!
10kW is pretty fast. People would have to be in a very special circumstance to need faster, like maybe you moonlight as an uber driver.
I'd only recommend dual chargers for P models in cold climates. If you want to range charge and turn on max battery power and heat the cabin up, 10kW is simply not enough, you will be waiting for hours.
I got dual chargers in my S60 and twice they have been very useful. Once on the trip from Macon to Charlotte before there was a Greenville Supercharger I was able to use an 80A HPWC in Greenville each direction. I could barely make it 193 miles directly from Macon (via Athens) but survived it. The other time was on a trip from Macon to Jekyll Island. I used the 80A HPWC at a brewery in Statesboro - gained about 130 miles in just over 2 hours there. Honestly that wasn't so useful after all because the Savannah supercharger was in place then. I just wanted an excuse to drink beer and support a non-hotel that has an HPWC.
But with more superchargers coming, the need for these sort of fill-ups mid-trip aren't going to be happening and if you're at a destination overnight, it's hard to imagine anything more than 10kW not being adequate. But if you can afford it, why not.
But with more superchargers coming, the need for these sort of fill-ups mid-trip aren't going to be happening and if you're at a destination overnight, it's hard to imagine anything more than 10kW not being adequate. But if you can afford it, why not.
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
Dual chargers is the only option I regret not getting when I purchased my Model S in 2013. Our house only had 100A service so it didn't seem like something I'd find very useful for charging at home. But I didn't realize how many HPWCs Tesla would deploy at hotels, wineries, and service centers or how many Model S owners would share their HPWCs on plugshare. Depending on where you live, there could also be some 70A J1772 stations available. Getting greater than 40 amps at a Hotel might not seem that useful since a full charge only takes about 9 hours at 40A/240V and most people spend at least that long at a hotel. But if the HPWC is only ~200V then it could take something like 11 hours for a full charge- I once had to wait for an overnight charge to finish before hitting the road in the morning because we arrived with 24 miles of range left and the charger was only 200V.
If you don't plan on taking many road trips outside of supercharger coverage or don't need to recharge quickly at home then the second charger probably won't do you much good. But if you plan to go on lots of road trips in various places in the US then I bet there will be at least one instance where the second charger will come in really handy.
If you don't plan on taking many road trips outside of supercharger coverage or don't need to recharge quickly at home then the second charger probably won't do you much good. But if you plan to go on lots of road trips in various places in the US then I bet there will be at least one instance where the second charger will come in really handy.
So why not do the $2000 retrofit? That's only $500 more than factory installation on the 2013 models...
Well then....you just might enjoy a road trip up to Charlottsville and sample one of the 550 selections while plugged into their 80A HPWC. :smile:
World of Beer - Home
Dual chargers have been very useful for us. We live off the beaten Supercharger trail, and there are a handful of higher amperage L2 charging stations around that would take twice as long if we didn't have them.
We just have 240v 50amp plugs at home (charging at 40 amps) which is just fine. It charges the car overnight, even from pretty low, so we have no need for dual chargers at home. Its been very nice having them on roadtrips.
Heading south from Bend, its 215 miles to the nearest Supercharger in Mt Shasta. When the weather's nice, no problem, but in the winter, we stop at a free 240v 80amp charger on the Oregon Institute of Technology campus in Klamath Falls for a top-up. Its a nice safety net to have there and the dual chargers make the most of it.
Heading east from Bend, its 318 miles to the Supercharger in Boise, ID. There's an older Tesla branded J1772 charging station behind the Harney County Chamber of Commerce in Burns. It runs at 208v, 70 amps. Over Christmas we used it to springboard us to Boise, charging for 2 hours in the evening while we ate dinner, then spent the night in a nearby motel plugged into a 120v wall plug (mainly to keep the battery warm), and then plugged it in for another 2 hours in the morning while we got ready and ate breakfast.
We just have 240v 50amp plugs at home (charging at 40 amps) which is just fine. It charges the car overnight, even from pretty low, so we have no need for dual chargers at home. Its been very nice having them on roadtrips.
Heading south from Bend, its 215 miles to the nearest Supercharger in Mt Shasta. When the weather's nice, no problem, but in the winter, we stop at a free 240v 80amp charger on the Oregon Institute of Technology campus in Klamath Falls for a top-up. Its a nice safety net to have there and the dual chargers make the most of it.
Heading east from Bend, its 318 miles to the Supercharger in Boise, ID. There's an older Tesla branded J1772 charging station behind the Harney County Chamber of Commerce in Burns. It runs at 208v, 70 amps. Over Christmas we used it to springboard us to Boise, charging for 2 hours in the evening while we ate dinner, then spent the night in a nearby motel plugged into a 120v wall plug (mainly to keep the battery warm), and then plugged it in for another 2 hours in the morning while we got ready and ate breakfast.
jcaspar
Member
I have had my Model S for over 2 years and have done several long distance trips. I have never had need for dual chargers. In fact, when I use a HPWC, I dislike the thick cable that makes it more difficult to maneuver. If I ever bought a second wall unit I would get another UMC rather than a HPWC.
For me, I'm just looking for any charging. I'm happy my car can take advantage of higher amperage stations. There's not much selection around these parts...
wraithnot
Model 3 VIN #2942 Model S VIN #5785
I've thought about it now that Tesla lowered the installation price, but all the places that I've needed 80 amps on road trips in the past (chiriaco summit, Picacho peak, Dublin service center) are now covered by superchargers. If someone installs an 80 amp HPWC between Tucson, AZ and Las Cruces, NM before that route is covered by superchargers then I would install the second charger in a heartbeat. Ditto if there will be a need for 80 amp charging for other upcoming roadtrips. Adding an infant to the passenger list requires a bit more planning now so I should have time to add the second charger if it turns out I'll need it. But it sure would have come in handy in the past.
BertL
Active Member
...one other thought in addition to my previous post: In my case, using my Electric Utility TOU plan, the lowest rates are available 5 hours each day -- 12Midnight-5AM (IIRC, in summer, $0.18 vs $0.46 per kWh / winter it's only a couple cents different). With my dual chargers and home 80A HPWC at home which I use nearly all the time for charging my MS, I can just about provide a full charge to my S90D within those 5 hours, when demand is least on the grid and I'm saving a few pennies at the same time.
And how many times do you drive more in a day than a single charger can do in 5 hours (150 miles)? Lets say you actually drive 200 miles every other day and would have to charge those additional 50 miles on the higher rate. How many years would it take to recover the additional cost for the dual charger and HPWC? It would take almost 4 years to just break even. But realistically, how many times do you drive more than 150 miles in a day?
BertL
Active Member
I completely understand that. It's not a decision everyone will make. ...but then again, for lower mileage drivers, one could never cost justify a MS because of a need for basic transportation and gas savings either.
I attempted to help people for years who tried to cost justify Lexus Hybrids, which was simply not possible as price of gas is lower and if owners drive less miles than others ...but I still drove 2 RXh for 10 years because it made me feel better not being quite as dependent upon fossil fuels, and owning the higher tech vehicle -- even if it cost me a few more bucks perhaps than others over it's lifetime.FWIW, I previously had 2 vehicles in my garage -- a hybrid and an ICE so there was always a back-up. Now I own a single BEV, but I still have family that can call and I need to drop everything to travel perhaps 50 miles as quickly and safely as possible. Allowing my single MS to have too-low of a charge for a longer period isn't a smart thing for me to do if I've say just returned from a day or longer trip and my charge is way down. My closest SuperCharger is 20 miles the wrong way or 75 miles the other, so not real emergency options when I'm at home. Call it Range Anxiety. I openly do, and my 90kwH battery with 80A HPWC is one way for me to deal with it. Knowing I can be charged as quickly as possible at my home if I ever needed it, is best for me. (Oh, and I can't cost-justify $3K for 16 miles additional range either, just as folks can't for Performance MS, but a lot of people seem to buy them.
) I always say it's great we have choices to meet our personal needs and desires.
I have requested that plugshare allow filtering as you suggest. When I called they indicated that they did not see a need for it. Perhaps more people calling and making this request is in order.
For the most part >40a AC charging happens with HPWC, and many Destination Chargers cannot exceed 40A. CHAdeMO, after all, is DC. Franky today I no longer see much need for AC charging master than 30A so I ould not buy Dual Chargers today, even though it was invaluable back when i bought my car. Franky at home I charge at 5A, to keep actively charging as much as possible rather than feed the vampira, charge again. Anytime we charge overnight we rarely need more than 20A to do even a range charge. If the ambiente temperature is <, say, 0C/32F maybe we might need a rifle more amps.
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