Climate change: Obama to unveil Clean Power Plan

[1208]

Obama is a Do'er!

He invaded and screwed up Libya, causing epic refugee and migration problems for EU and Libyans and migrants who become exploited. Just google Mediterranean migrants.

He's screwed up what was stable country called Syria by funding rebels causing millions of refugees and thousands dead.

He's done drone bombing on a scale no other leader in history has done. Apparently adult soldiers lives are more important than civilian childrens'.

And almost reignited cold war with Russia.

He doesn't just talk about screwing up other countries, he gets on with it.

That's what I like about him he gets the job done!

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

:sigh: There's no point in either "side" trying to shout down the other vis-a-vis what Pres. Obama has or hasn't done.

I was hoping that we could discuss the clean power plan solely on its merits rather than based on who proposed it, etc.

I'm a progressive/liberal and I do understand the balance that needs to be struck across the spectrum of clean energy, jobs and higher energy costs. But, I hope it's only fair to say that cleaner, renewable power is the way to go; there are obvious, long-lasting benefits across the board from that.

 

[Electroman]

.. and why is that simple message so difficult to understand to all those opposing Republican senators?

Why be myopic and focus on a few jobs that would be lost now when the long term benefits outweigh those losses?

Interestingly even the comments section in foxnews.com is not overwhelmingly negative as it generally is on anything Obama proposes.

I am thinking it is just the right wing leadership pandering to their hard core base, ignoring the fact that many moderate Republicans agree that Coal plants should go.

 

[Robert.Boston]

Moderator's Note

I probably should pick up nearly all of the posts so far and move them to Political Quarantine. But I won't, because the tone was reasonably civil.

Now, let's return to the topic of discussing the Clean Power Plan, rather than politics. Further posts on politics (not directly related to the CPP) will be quarantined without further notice.

 

[Canuck]

I probably should pick up nearly all of the posts so far and move them to Political Quarantine. But I won't, because the tone was reasonably civil.


Now, let's return to the topic of discussing the Clean Power Plan, rather than politics. Further posts on politics (not directly related to the CPP) will be quarantined without further notice.

Agreed.

Plus, I really appreciate how this forum is moderated and kudos to you for all your hard work here! It's very much appreciated.

(And that's coming from a serial off topic offender )

 

[3mp_kwh]

Ok, I'm just coming up for air from those 1,560 pages of goodness. I guess a key takeaway, and what opposition has to answer to, is just how economically destructive going from 2,039 MMT CO2 in 2013, to 1,812 in 2030, can be? The critics who say it doesn't dent the global issue and will bankrupt us all, may be right about that first part.

Anyone notice how in order to get to "32%" the EPA grossed up 2005's emissions to 2,683 MMT CO2? This way solar, wind and natural gas can help get us to the real 11% improvement, right as we let more nukes die. What the heck, they're not in the rate-based calculation. They're only in that physics part.

Seriously, It's great the U.S. finally has a federal action on CO2, but I think we would have been better off with Waxman/Markey.

Snorkel mask back on...

Clean Power Plan for Existing Power Plants | Clean Power Plan | US EPA

 

[thx1139]

I completely disagree with any suggestion that 'Obama is only a talker and not a doer'. With this antagonistic Republican congress it is simply a miracle that he has accomplished more than many Presidents of the modern era.

I think he has fundamentally changed in a positive way some of the basic structures of our nation that have been entrenched for decades - Health care, the way govt works, automotive industry, clean power, immigration reform, Cuba, Iran (not so sure if it is positive or negative) - to name a few.

Coal workers will lose jobs and the writing was on the wall for over a decade now. Jobs for the sake of jobs doesn't benefit anyone.

Now if he can take on Car dealers that would be great.

Not to mention there just arent that many Coal workers in the US. Last time I checked there a total of 174K total workers in the industry. Not 174K miners, but all jobs from administration, production, transportation and power plant operations.

it isnt the workers that are the issue, but the very rich owners that dont want the easy money going away.

 

[beeeerock]

it isnt the workers that are the issue, but the very rich owners that dont want the easy money going away.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the Climate Change Conundrum summed up in one easy to digest sentence... readily applicable to virtually every industry associated with carbon production or dependence.

 

[Electroman]

Yup

 

[Maarten]

In Europe this still has to go through the European Parliament, but I am shocked and ashamed the goverments (with only one voting against) agree to this:

"Cars running on diesel are allowed to produce twice as much exhaust as from 2017"

When do we ever learn to think about our children's future?