Cash for clunkers isn’t what I had in mind. A well cared for old car can still burn cleanly. I was thinking in terms of getting the clunkers that don’t pass emission tests off the road.History:
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Climate Change / Global Warming Discussion
- Thread starter Raffy.Roma
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jimm01
Member
From a quantitative perspective for total cost one has to consider GHG production during the entire value chain from the perspective of climate not carbon neutrality. I don't know the answer to that--however if we put the environment into the total cost of ownership I have my reservations.
Well, I’m trying not to overthink it too much. I read somewhere a few years back that 13% of automobiles were causing 87% of the pollution. I believe it would be a common sense short-term solution to go after that 13% instead of telling everybody who owns an ICE vehicle to junk it now and buy EV. The public will revolt against that, and set the clean environment movement back. I’ll write my Congressman and see what he says.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
jimm01
Member
You have to consider this matter from the point of view of oil used for the whole transportation. In the USA transportation uses 60% of oil. Consider how much oil would be saved (and not burned!) if the whole transportation would be electrified!
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Our climate change turning point is right here, right now | Rebecca Solnit
Human beings crave clarity, immediacy, landmark events. We seek turning points, because our minds are good at recognizing the specific – this time, this place, this sudden event, this tangible change. This is why we were never very good, most of us, at comprehending climate change in the first place. The climate was an overarching, underlying condition of our lives and planet, and the change was incremental and intricate and hard to recognize if you weren’t keeping track of this species or that temperature record. Climate catastrophe is a slow shattering of the stable patterns that governed the weather, the seasons, the species and migrations, all the beautifully orchestrated systems of the holocene era we exited when we manufactured the anthropocene through a couple of centuries of increasingly wanton greenhouse gas emissions and forest destruction.
Summarizing the leaked contents of a forthcoming IPCC report, the Agence France-Presse reports: “Climate change will fundamentally reshape life on Earth in the coming decades, even if humans can tame planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions […] Species extinction, more widespread disease, unliveable heat, ecosystem collapse, cities menaced by rising seas – these and other devastating climate impacts are accelerating and bound to become painfully obvious before a child born today turns 30. The choices societies make now will determine whether our species thrives or simply survives as the 21st century unfolds…” The phrase “the choices societies make” is a clear demand for a turning point, a turning away from fossil fuel and toward protection of the ecosystems that protect us.
Human beings crave clarity, immediacy, landmark events. We seek turning points, because our minds are good at recognizing the specific – this time, this place, this sudden event, this tangible change. This is why we were never very good, most of us, at comprehending climate change in the first place. The climate was an overarching, underlying condition of our lives and planet, and the change was incremental and intricate and hard to recognize if you weren’t keeping track of this species or that temperature record. Climate catastrophe is a slow shattering of the stable patterns that governed the weather, the seasons, the species and migrations, all the beautifully orchestrated systems of the holocene era we exited when we manufactured the anthropocene through a couple of centuries of increasingly wanton greenhouse gas emissions and forest destruction.
Summarizing the leaked contents of a forthcoming IPCC report, the Agence France-Presse reports: “Climate change will fundamentally reshape life on Earth in the coming decades, even if humans can tame planet-warming greenhouse gas emissions […] Species extinction, more widespread disease, unliveable heat, ecosystem collapse, cities menaced by rising seas – these and other devastating climate impacts are accelerating and bound to become painfully obvious before a child born today turns 30. The choices societies make now will determine whether our species thrives or simply survives as the 21st century unfolds…” The phrase “the choices societies make” is a clear demand for a turning point, a turning away from fossil fuel and toward protection of the ecosystems that protect us.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Your Congressman says what the fossil fuel industry tells him to say.
jimm01
Member
“Life on Earth can recover from a drastic climate shift by evolving into new species and creating new ecosystems. Humans cannot.”
www.france24.com
Crushing climate impacts to hit sooner than feared: draft UN report - France 24
Crushing climate impacts to hit sooner than feared: draft UN report
www.france24.com
jimm01
Member
Oil & Gas: Money to Congress | OpenSecrets
Our user-friendly database of campaign contributions by industries and interest groups will help you learn how these interests gain political influence in American politics.
www.opensecrets.org
OK, fine. Now convince millions of Americans driving ICE of that. Vilifying them all will not get you the results you want. Transitioning from ICE to BEV has to be done smartly. Vilifying the oil industry gets you nowhere as well. They know that electric power has to be generated to fuel BEVs and natural gas will be major component of that power.
No no no I don't want to vilify anybody. YOU have very low consideration of American people!
On the contrary most American people want their electric cars be charged with renewables!
YOU ARE COMPLETELY WRONG!
Wind and Solar has a loooong way to go. Check out energy consumption worldwide. This is why banging the gong to get people off fossil fuels will go nowhere. But cleaning our emissions in the meantime is a more practical way of helping the environment. Does that make sense?
wattsupwiththat.com
2020 Global Energy Data Shows Fossil Fuels Completely Dominate World Energy Use • Watts Up With That?
The world’s developing nations completely dominate global energy use and emissions and are unwaveringly committed to future economically driven increased use of fossil fuels for energy growth with resulting future increases of global CO2 emissions.
wattsupwiththat.com
mspohr
Well-Known Member
We're not talking about vilifying people. We're talking about incentives.
In addition to the inherent incentives of EVs (lower operating cost, less maintenance, emission free, etc.) subsidies (tax credits, rebates, etc.) would accelerate adoption of EVs.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
Moving people to EVs through incentives is working to clean emissions.Wind and Solar has a loooong way to go. Check out energy consumption worldwide. This is why banging the gong to get people off fossil fuels will go nowhere. But cleaning our emissions in the meantime is a more practical way of helping the environment. Does that make sense?
2020 Global Energy Data Shows Fossil Fuels Completely Dominate World Energy Use • Watts Up With That?
The world’s developing nations completely dominate global energy use and emissions and are unwaveringly committed to future economically driven increased use of fossil fuels for energy growth with resulting future increases of global CO2 emissions.
You can't clean up an ICE car. Some are worse than others but they all are dirty and waste 60% of their fuel. Getting rid of ICE cars is a big win.
Shouldn't quoting wattsupwiththat.com have this moved to the climate denial thread?Wind and Solar has a loooong way to go. Check out energy consumption worldwide. This is why banging the gong to get people off fossil fuels will go nowhere. But cleaning our emissions in the meantime is a more practical way of helping the environment. Does that make sense?
2020 Global Energy Data Shows Fossil Fuels Completely Dominate World Energy Use • Watts Up With That?
The world’s developing nations completely dominate global energy use and emissions and are unwaveringly committed to future economically driven increased use of fossil fuels for energy growth with resulting future increases of global CO2 emissions.
Renewables are rising exponentially and coal is falling.
The three cheapest types of power are wind, solar, and natural gas with the renewables starting to be cheaper than gas. Market forces are making other fossil fuels non-competitive.
It came from a comprehensive BP report. You do know the oil industry has an interest in developing renewables, do you not? Worldwide, renewables has a long way to go.
www.bp.com
Statistical Review of World Energy | Energy economics | Home
This year’s 71st edition of the bp Statistical Review of World Energy helps to make sense of the greatest challenges and uncertainties facing the global energy system for almost 50 years
It isn’t a “bad” report. It said that renewables grew to 11.7% worldwide for electricity production last year while fossil fuels shrank some. But we still have a very long ways to go to get off fossil fuels. You are not going to stop fossil fuels on a dime. I just think the smartest thing to do for our environment is to channel funds towards cleaning emissions worldwide instead of being so fixated on carbon dioxide. Make sense?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
No because there is no way to meaningfully "clean up" fossil fuels.
No, and it's already been explained why, but you don't seem interested in hearing it.
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