JRP3
Hyperactive Member
They are forcing people to use cleaner less damaging sources of energy! If we don't use things like wonderful reliable coal then miners don't have the privilege of getting black lung! Aren't you outraged?
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Climate Change Denial
- Thread starter mspohr
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- climate change
I kind of want to hear what he has to say (assuming he addresses it at all).
So much sarcasm is thrown about in this thread that when I first started reading a few of the pages... I legit thought you and eevee-fan were climate change deniers. Because you would often say some outlandish stupid things as sarcasm... but it's said so often I thought it was really your position. I know better now of course, but it took a while to realize you were arguing both sides to create an echo chamber.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
I realize that sarcasm doesn't always translate well in a forum but I'd be interested to know which posts of mine could have created any doubt about my position. Having been here for so long I probably operate with an assumption that most know me well enough to realize when I'm being sarcastic but obviously not everyone does.
I think the first posts I read in this thread were those where people were talking about killing poor folks to solve the problem. I couldn't tell who was on which side of the climate debate since it seemed like somehow it was a debate on who to kill (I'm sure it was a figurative philosophical conversation, but still weird).
In some other forums on TMC, even referring to people as "poor" instead of "disadvantaged" results in a moderation event. But then we have a thread where forum members are like "so what are the pros and cons of killing poor people vs rich people".
I'm like... I don't understand what is happening here haha but ya'll sound crazy.
Anyway, I get the feeling MitchP85D isn't going to respond about what dystopia he's scared of where people are addressing climate change instead of just letting things happen unabated. He's spent the vast majority of 76 discussion pages trying to be a fact-counter/troll; he seems to dodge questions that don't give him the opportunity to present some oddball factoid. He just likes to take each climate change data point that is shown, distort it, then find some weird interpretation of some other data point to say there's no news.
We know he isn't going to have his POV changed around "facts"; so I'm just trying to understand his motives. Maybe also gain a better understand what ideology exists in his head other than to be a contrarian so he can say he's not brainwashed by fake news.
I guess we can take the ounce of good news that he's driving a Tesla instead of some F-450 Super Duty King Ranch Powerstroke Diesel rolling coal down I-35.
In some other forums on TMC, even referring to people as "poor" instead of "disadvantaged" results in a moderation event. But then we have a thread where forum members are like "so what are the pros and cons of killing poor people vs rich people".
I'm like... I don't understand what is happening here haha but ya'll sound crazy.
Anyway, I get the feeling MitchP85D isn't going to respond about what dystopia he's scared of where people are addressing climate change instead of just letting things happen unabated. He's spent the vast majority of 76 discussion pages trying to be a fact-counter/troll; he seems to dodge questions that don't give him the opportunity to present some oddball factoid. He just likes to take each climate change data point that is shown, distort it, then find some weird interpretation of some other data point to say there's no news.
We know he isn't going to have his POV changed around "facts"; so I'm just trying to understand his motives. Maybe also gain a better understand what ideology exists in his head other than to be a contrarian so he can say he's not brainwashed by fake news.
I guess we can take the ounce of good news that he's driving a Tesla instead of some F-450 Super Duty King Ranch Powerstroke Diesel rolling coal down I-35.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Over the years I've seen enough to understand that most denialism comes from fear of change. Certain people are more comfortable with things being done "the way we've always done it", which really means a limited time period they feel attached to. Also the fear that change will negatively impact their financial situation.
Here is the Danish Meteorological Institute. They, like the NSIDC are all in for the human-caused global warming theory. That is how they get their funding.
However, there are good honest geoscientists who work at both institutions. Check out this statement from DMI.
"In total the loss of mass from the ice sheet equals a 25 mm addition to global sea level since 1840." Did you catch that? The total sea level rise from Greenland ice sheet melt is a grand total of 1 inch! It is as if the scientists snuck that little tid bit of information in. As you see, there really is nothing to get up in arms about concerning Greenland ice sheet melting. In fact, the surface mass balance of Greenland has recovered considerably since the record melt back in 2012.
Ah, yes, the one spot on Earth that is cooling. Meanwhile, ice mass losses in the rest of the world, right?
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Wrong. The global warming alarmists were all pointing at Greenland as the place that will melt away, raising sea level across the earth and drowning everybody along the coasts. They saw what happened in 2012, and got all excited about it. False alarm.
It is going to take a lot more than 273 deg. K to melt away the Arctic ice cap.
ocean.dmi.dk
Ocean and Ice Services | Danmarks Meteorologiske Institut
Danmarks Meteorologiske Instituts hjemmeside for marin information
Exactly.
As I’ve posted before the denialist position is one of the following depending on the argument:
- The climate is not changing: Do Nothing
- Fine the climate is changing but it’s actually good!: Do Nothing
- Ok it’s changing and it’s bad but it’s natural: So there’s nothing we can do
- Ok it’s changing and bad and not natural but we don’t know how much humans are causing it: So there’s nothing we can do
- Ok it’s changing, it’s bad, humans are causing most/all of it but there’s nothing we can do: Do Nothing
- Ok we can do something but China/India won’t: So Do Nothing
- Ok we can do something but you’re a commie for suggesting we do something: Do Nothing oh and up yours commie!
Nothing on the left actually matters the only thing that does is “Do Nothing”. The excuse is just chosen to fit whatever argument is occurring
Norbert
TSLA will win
Quite common, I think, are various forms of fatalism in the sense that they believe for example that whatever an unregulated economy produces (even or especially if led by selfish CEOs) constitutes the "natural course of events" that shouldn't be interfered with by government-paid scientists. Even if that may occasionally cause a disaster or two, as we will die anyway. They don't see that any "ism", including capitalism, any system, left on its own, will devolve into a mess without reasonable people taking care that something else happens.
So they don't really want to convince, they just want to disrupt or neutralize the interference, the attempt to do something about it, to do something about the mess that is going to happen "naturally". They force us to be fatalists, to leave things to the gods, the imaginary self-healing powers of the economy, the wisdom of powerful men to do the right thing when the time is right. Then they are surprised (or in denial) when none of that holds water. Why are they surprised? Why do some believe the earth is flat? Because they never stopped to be like that. They think that's them and their freedom.
You're forgetting... Russia has the social media trolls and probably funds the GOP. Global Warming seems to be very bad for the US but very beneficial to Russia. I guess whoever funds the campaigns gets their agenda passed.
My first Tesla was a 2014 MS60. My highly successful stepdaughter bought that from me in 2015. I got the 2015 MSP85D in March 2015. Got 120K miles on it. Still spinning like a top. I also have a 2018 Chevy Silverado Pickup truck V-6. Not a lot of power but good gas mileage and range (not F-450). I got 24 mpg on my road trip to Tennessee with it. We nickname it "Pokey." We call our Tesla "Speedy." We drive Speedy around town. I take it up to Dallas from Houston to attend board meetings. My wife prefers Pokey for long road trips because it is roomier and more comfortable. Plus she feels safer in it during heavy thunderstorms. For the rest of my life I will have a Tesla in my garage.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Here it is, late June and there is still plenty of ice in the Arctic.
Just shortly after Summer Solstice, solar radiation is most intense. That ice is reflecting a lot of it back into space.
The Central Arctic region is still solid.
https://masie_web.apps.nsidc.org/pub/DATASETS/NOAA/G02186/plots/4km/r11_Central_Arctic_ts_4km.png
Just shortly after Summer Solstice, solar radiation is most intense. That ice is reflecting a lot of it back into space.
The Central Arctic region is still solid.
https://masie_web.apps.nsidc.org/pub/DATASETS/NOAA/G02186/plots/4km/r11_Central_Arctic_ts_4km.png
Surface Mass Balance of Greenland is above average from autumn 2020 through spring 2021.
Greenland's 2021 Spring report says more snow, less melt.
"Surface mass balance over the ice sheet from September 1, 2020, to June 20, 2021, was about 8 percent above the 1981 to 2010 average, with 7 percent above average snowfall and 10 percent below average melt runoff."
Greenland's 2021 Spring report says more snow, less melt.
"Surface mass balance over the ice sheet from September 1, 2020, to June 20, 2021, was about 8 percent above the 1981 to 2010 average, with 7 percent above average snowfall and 10 percent below average melt runoff."
I am most certain that all of you global warming alarmists just nodded your heads in agreement with this "Arctic summers ice-free by 2013" prediction.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
That's what those condo dwellers said about the building sinking just a couple mm per year... another free for all state where the governor was arguing for even less regulation. LOL
Yeah I don't think you guys will convince a stubborn old coot like Mitch. You can hit him with 100 "facts" and he'll find one of two data points that refute the 100. He just wants to live happy knowing he's smarter than the climate change folks. He needs something to be 100% true before he will accept it. We should just be glad that his daughter is pretty smart and hooked him up with an EV. At least someone in that family is somewhat trying to do better. I just hope that if he really is on the board of some company... that if that company were to take on some investment to try and reduce carbon emissions, he's not up there spouting some whatever's stopping the green stuff.
It's one thing when a do-nothing-but-post-crap on Facebook person denies climate change. It's another when anyone in a position to affect large-scale policy and investment feels the same way. It's just unfortunate some people want their own pride and perception of self-intelligence to trump the long-term well being of future generations.
It's one thing when a do-nothing-but-post-crap on Facebook person denies climate change. It's another when anyone in a position to affect large-scale policy and investment feels the same way. It's just unfortunate some people want their own pride and perception of self-intelligence to trump the long-term well being of future generations.
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