Chevy Bolt team must be really pulling their hair out after a today's tweets from Elon!

[ankitmishra]

A. My god that Bolt is ugly and tasteless. (And that's ok for some people...tasteless, bland, uninspired people) But at 37,000 before tax credit - compared to the sleek, sexy Model 3 for 35k$ - You're out of your G'Ded mind if you choose that over Model 3. Unless you NEED to have it before model 3... I'm looking to Germany for any eventual serious EV competitors to the 3, not (lol) Chevy. The bolt looks like a $20,000 ICE with a $17,000 premium for it being electric. The 3 looks like a 35,000$ car (or more...it's pretty nice.), that just happens to be an EV.




People who paid more for a Model X don't expect it to be faster than Model S because tradeoffs, so why do you think Model 3 vs S would be any different?

If the Model 3 is lighter than the Model S, it has the inherent potential to be faster. No reason to limit that. While the Model S is VERY fast compared to anything, and handles very well for it's size class, it is still a HUGE, HEAVY Full-size luxury Sedan. The Model 3 will be an inherently better track car.

Before, you bought a Model S because it was THE performance EV. Now you have a choice - Do I want bigger/roomier? Do I want nimbler? And you have a continuum of compromises to choose from:
3, S ,X -> fastest, faster, fast / smallest, bigger, biggest.

For comparison - BMW M3 = 4.3 seconds 0-62 (3L,431hp), BMW M5 = 4.4 seconds (4.4L, 560 HP)
(M3 STARTS AT LIKE 80,000 $ LOL, model 3 will be on par for much much less (0-60).

Model 3 is an affordable product from a premium car maker. It won't have features that make the flagships unique. IMHO. Model S sales will fall if a less costlier car can go faster than it. Size of car won't stop people from buying 3 instead of S or selling S to buy 3. It will be bad for Tesla.

 

[CuriousG]

Incorrect.

There are two rear motor configs, plus two rear inverters, and it works out this way:

40/60/70/85: high power motor, low power inverter
70D/85D/90D: low power motor, low power inverter
P85/P85D/P90D: high power motor, high power inverter

I stand corrected. I was under the assumption the older non-D were high power but the newer models after dual motor was announced were using low power motors for 70 and 85.

But according to wk057, they all used the same inverters:

Based on my own analysis all of the small motors and inverters (70D, 85D, 90D, front of P85D/P90D) are all physically the same. All of the large motors and inverters (S40/S60/S85/P85/S90/rear of P85D and P90D) are all physically the same.

 

[levous]

The Chevy Bolt is a totally different play. The fact that Kevin Kelly, their manager of electrification, specifically said it is "not a compliance car" further convinces me that it is. In order to continue to sell gas guzzling SUVs, some markets require a certain quality of zero emission vehicles to be sold as well. I believe California is one such market. So, Chevy has developed the bolt, based on the advancements made by Tesla and Nissan, to meet this requirement. I have read that they are already selling the cars at a loss.

While Chevy denies calling production, LG had exclusive contract to provide batteries. They are presently capable of delivering 30k / yr. model3 can't happen without Gigafactory which is why Tesla owns the electric car market and will be as impactful as Apple to our children's lives.

'Not a compliance car,' GM says 2017 Chevy Bolt can meet demand of over 50,000 per year - HybridCars.com

I doubt Chevy is concerned about the model3 other than excited to benefit from the advancements it brings to market. Bmw, on the other hand, is certainly needing new underpants.

 

[Seesaw]

I actually think the Model 3 benefits the Bolt. Having the Bolt mentioned in the same media articles as Tesla gives it untold exposure and it legitimises the offering.

Also all the press and excitement about the new EV from Tesla does rub off a little on the other entrants.

I can see Bolt getting a bit of a boost with all this publicity and buzz around the Model 3 especially as it's in production now.

 

[Jhsq]

Please cite a source for this. Link to the tweet?

I think he's combining the Electrek scoop

Elon's tweet hinting this

And the price tweet about the less than 5k$ upgrade (although I think this will get you below 5s, not 4s)

 

[ecarfan]

Incorrect. Tesla sells in India as of Thursday.
India's entrepreneurs are pre-ordering Tesla's Model 3—even though it could cost twice as much

Elon Musk Says Tesla's Model 3 Is Coming To India, Know About It

Tesla unveils its most affordable electric car Model 3; coming to India

I just booked the Tesla Model 3 in India, Here’s 10 Reasons Why

Tesla to enter India with the new Model 3

My apologies! I was on vacation out of the US and offline for 6 days prior to the afternoon of April 1st and I completely missed that news. Amazing. One of those articles states, quote "Prior to the reveal, Elon Musk, Tesla founder and CEO said in a tweet that online bookings would commence in countries such as India, Brazil, South Africa, New Zealand, South Korea, Singapore and Ireland."

That is outstanding. Of course customers in those countries that reserved on the first day that 3 reservations were available still won't get their cars until 2020 at the earliest, and more likely even later, but clearly this means that Tesla will have sales and support networks set up in those countries by then. Which is great news. India and Brazil are massive markets even for a $35K car (though the base price will be higher in those countries due to shipping and exchange rates) and South Korea is a very important market. Singapore is small but wealthy.

 

[zambono]

And add to above list that Ride suspension dynamically adjusts to ride height, STANDARD on M3.

Standard air suspension, thats the first time I hear that. I'm fairly certain it will be an option, and hope it is. Air suspension, and other hydraulic variants are known for too many issues. Look at Range Rovers, Lincolns etc...

 

[Bimbels]

Standard air suspension, thats the first time I hear that. I'm fairly certain it will be an option, and hope it is. Air suspension, and other hydraulic variants are known for too many issues. Look at Range Rovers, Lincolns etc...

I didn't take his tweet to mean it was standard. I took it to mean it would be available - and the answer for the bad roads in India. I believe it will be an option like it is on the S/X.

 

[R.S]

For all that fear the Model 3 might come too close to the Model S, do you really think the Model S won't improve over the coming one and a half years? We have already heard about the planned P100D and i would guess, the base version might also jump in capacity. They will also increase power on those models, since inverters get cheaper and if you look at the motors, they already just have 510hp and 2*260hp options, so I guess even the base versions will approach a 0-60 time of just over 4 seconds, by the time the 3 gets out. The 100D might even be below 4 seconds and we can only imagine how powerful a P100D might be.

So a cheap but powerful Model 3 won't hurt Model S sales, because it will be even more powerful. The only thing that might hurt S sales would be the newer look of the Model 3, but I guess Tesla will have a solution for that, too.

 

[techmaven]

Of course he does. I agree. But, IMO it requires more than willpower.

IF they go too far, too fast. what will happen to the tens of billions of $ - each of them - has invested in ICE car design, and manufacturing and assembly plants for millions of cars per year, that have not had financial payback ( let alone return or positive net present value for their investors ).

Combined, ICE manufacturers have invested over $300 billion new $ equivalents, in just the last 5 years alone, of their investors money ....and 95 PC plus of their employes are only trained in ICE manufacturing.

So, it's not just will power. The financial ramifications of moving too fast will be hugely, hugely expensive for them as ICE manufacturers. THIS IS SUPER IMPORTANT.

What would you do tomorrow if you are the CFO of GM or MB or BMW and have many tens of billions stuck in this legacy infrastructure and manufacturing and assembly ? And you - At the same time - are legally obligated to service the hundreds of millions of your ICE cars on the road today , globally.

It's not just willpower....but also current financials and recently sunk capital. They are steering huge cruise liners and have to make small but long term changes rather than fast, sharp turns for fear ( legitimately ) of just toppling ...financially.

And, there's also the union agreements, tied to specific plants, in specific cities and countries, with specific hiring commitments in many cases.

I understand what you are saying, but it still boils down to willpower to disrupt yourself. It's the hardest thing for a successful company to do... like Kodak seeing that film processing chemicals and papers are a dead end, invented digital photography, but yet still unable to figure out how to be successful in the paradigm shift.

As it stands, it is still about willpower to make the necessary changes.

What I see from the major automaker EV pioneers - GM, Nissan, and Mitsubishi, is a tepidness around it. They put the EVs into a little box, hoping that they grow slow enough to not disrupt their other lines. It isn't that Nissan or GM didn't want to sell hundreds of thousands of Leafs or Volts in 2011/2012, it's that they still see the EV as a segment to their own, basically competing against the Prius to be the next Prius. As opposed to seeing that the Maxima or the BMW 3 series, the bread and butter vehicles will be electric sooner rather than later. We are still seeing tepidness around putting the Voltec drivetrain in other vehicles.

Combine this with the problem that they are spending billions in R&D just to compete on ICE powertrains. Plus, most of the management was versed in, matter of fact, the way most of the management was promoted had to do with ICE powertrain development.