Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[ℬête Noire]

How does the vehicle display energy gained by regeneration? Does it subtract from the energy used?

As far as I can tell, yes it subtracts. It appears that the "energy used since last full charge" is a top line net usage number, as the number of times I've checked the "energy used since last full charge" has matched up with the average mi/kW mileage trip odometer numbers. The caveat is that I've not done extremely downhill legs to test this out, because welcome to the Gulf Coast. But there are enough hills and I've done enough stop-and-go driving (in "L" with nothing but paddle 'braking') that any difference should have shown up to some extent.

EDIT: It does NOT however subtract charge added to the battery via external charger, if you give just a partial charge. You have to hit the stop on the charge (whether that's 100%, or I believe 90% if you have top of hill mode set though I haven't inspected that really close to be sure) to have it reset the charge & miles counter on that.

 

[bro1999]

How does the vehicle display energy gained by regeneration? Does it subtract from the energy used?

It subtracts energy put back in by regen.

Also, even if I charge my Bolt to 100%, regen is still available, though greatly reduced (25-30 kW instead of the max 70 kW). So that suggests there is still a buffer even after charging to "100%".

 

[ℬête Noire]

It subtracts energy put back in by regen.

Also, even if I charge my Bolt to 100%, regen is still available, though greatly reduced (25-30 kW instead of the max 70 kW). So that suggests there is still a buffer even after charging to "100%".

I suspected this. I don't 100% SOC anymore but when I did, because I one-pedal, I sensed a noticeable drop-off in my "braking" at the start of my trip. I wasn't entirely sure though if it was battery temp limited or just being at the supposed ceiling, it might have been a little of both.

 

[diamond.g]

It subtracts energy put back in by regen.

Also, even if I charge my Bolt to 100%, regen is still available, though greatly reduced (25-30 kW instead of the max 70 kW). So that suggests there is still a buffer even after charging to "100%".

Are the packs rated at 3.6V or 4V? Seems like the kWh returned could differ based on voltage for each pack.

 

[mtndrew1]

Here's what Wikipedia says. Wiki content is often submitted by paid marketing writers, not actual experts, so I don't know how accurate this is: "The Sonic is the only Subcompact car sold in North America that is built in the United States.[37]"

I find it fascinating that the Bolt and Volt are now Opels based on the infinite-development-string school of engineering. Interesting. So now they are French creations?

Trivia:
The 2017 Volt is 18% Korean content.
The 2017 BMW i3 is 20% Korean content.

Wow. Praise Barra and pass the potato salad.

Anyhow, the point stands that the Bolt is ill-prepared to accept AWD because it’s based on a FWD platform likely closely related to T300 which doesn’t support such a feature without major rework. Which was the point of the whole response before you took us down the yellow brick road to the RenCen.

 

[McRat]

Wow. Praise Barra and pass the potato salad.

Anyhow, the point stands that the Bolt is ill-prepared to accept AWD because it’s based on a FWD platform likely closely related to T300 which doesn’t support such a feature without major rework. Which was the point of the whole response before you took us down the yellow brick road to the RenCen.

The point is that you are not even reading your own source material. So it's hard to believe you are expert in things you don't know unless you are a government employee, then you are excused.

The RAV4 is a FWD platform as are all Subarus. And the Hondas. And others. If you look under there, it's flimsy. Not much structure to speak of. Did you think there was frame back there? Look again.

BTW - While you are there, look at the rear of the BMW i3.

 

[bro1999]

Are the packs rated at 3.6V or 4V? Seems like the kWh returned could differ based on voltage for each pack.

This was the cell voltage at 66% SOC. Middle number is the average voltage.

 

[Asymmetry]

wouldnt buy this junker, no one else dwould and GM knows it

Chevrolet Bolt right-hand drive still off the cards, GM president says | CarAdvice

 

[McRat]

wouldnt buy this junker, no one else dwould and GM knows it

Chevrolet Bolt right-hand drive still off the cards, GM president says | CarAdvice

Says the folk who destroyed their own auto industry just for laughs...

 

[Jeff N]

If the true cell chem limit was 2.5C, when you reached 50% charge your power would be noticeably reduced, not just from the drop in voltage, but the heat decaying the peak output. We know the Volt is much higher than 6.5C because at 2 miles indicated, it will still hit 120kW.

I suspect it’s more about cell construction than cell chemistry. They optimized the thickness of the cathode, anode, and conductive copper and aluminum collector foils in the Bolt cells to get the highest energy density whereas in the Volt they aimed to enable higher power capability.

The cell specifications, such as we know them from unofficial sources, are quite different. The Bolt cells may be max 2C continuous discharge with a 10 second peak discharge rate of 3.5C whereas the Volt cells may have been rated for 10C continuous discharge. In return for that lower design power, Bolt cells appear to be quite a bit more energy dense.

 

[diamond.g]

This was the cell voltage at 66% SOC. Middle number is the average voltage.
View attachment 282016

Can you post a grab when SOC is at an indicated 100%?

 

[ℬête Noire]

Chevrolet Bolt right-hand drive still off the cards, GM president says | CarAdvice

Why would they bother put the time into setting up the production of a right-hand drive Bolt when next year they're just taking the steering wheel out altogether!?

 

[scottf200]

Why would they bother put the time into setting up the production of a right-hand drive Bolt when next year they're just taking the steering wheel out altogether!?

So they can create "uber-like" taxi's from the Bolt and stop selling Bolts to individual drivers

 

[ℬête Noire]

So they can create "uber-like" taxi's from the Bolt and stop selling Bolts to individual drivers

If you read into what they are doing, basically those vehicles won't be anywhere near retail pricing for some time because of the sensor gear package they are going with. Particularly the LIDAR, which they are relying on. LIDAR is going to become available as a crazy cheap system-on-a-chip but not for at least a few years.

Also, those are test cars, so like what Waymo has been doing with the Chrysler Pacific Hybrids for a while. Internal product development, but driving on public roads.

EDIT: The difference from Waymo is that GM will be doing this all in-house, via the self-driving division that they bought. These Bolts will never be sold at any price, this'll be a completely vertical manufacturer-to-taxi service. Clears up some insurance questions, they'll just run self-insured with no questions about who's liable if the car fails.

 

[scottf200]

If you read into what they are doing, basically those vehicles won't be anywhere near retail pricing for some time because of the sensor gear package they are going with. Particularly the LIDAR, which they are relying on. LIDAR is going to become available as a crazy cheap system-on-a-chip but not for at least a few years.

Also, those are test cars, so like what Waymo has been doing with the Chrysler Pacific Hybrids for a while. Internal product development, but driving on public roads.

EDIT: The difference from Waymo is that GM will be doing this all in-house, via the self-driving division that they bought. These Bolts will never be sold at any price, this'll be a completely vertical manufacturer-to-taxi service. Clears up some insurance questions, they'll just run self-insured with no questions about who's liable if the car fails.

Yes, I've read a fair amount on it from several sources. It doesn't seem like any of the GM PR wants to mention Bolt in the same sentence (article/blog/etc) as their Cruise AV. 14 cameras; 5 LIDAR, 8 fixed RADAR, 3 articulating RADAR; 10 short-range radar!!!

>>>>>> begin >>>>>>>
GM bought Cruise for more than $1 billion in 2016 and since then has been testing driverless vehicles in San Francisco, Detroit, and Scottsdale, Arizona. Cruise has now developed its third-generation autonomous vehicle, based on the Chevrolet Bolt electric car. And in February we learned that GM and Lyft had plans to put thousands of self-driving Bolts into action in San Francisco in 2018.
<<<<<<< end <<<<<<<

Picture via: GM To Go Large-Scale With Self-Driving Cars In U.S. In 2019

 

[jejusoul]

-
Two interesting videos showing the disassembly of the B olt EV battery pack by Professor John D. Kelly at Weber State University (WSU).

This is the sticker seen on the B olt EV battery from the first YouTube video above


In the second YouTube video above we see that the B olt's pack is made up of eight 5.94 kWh modules and two 4.75 kWh modules for a total capacity of 57.02 kWh. Presumably that means eight modules with ten cells and two modules with eight. Each of the 96 cells would have a capacity of 594Wh. We don't know if that number is total capacity or the usable capacity or even perhaps a nominal rating.

There has been discussion on this both at the N issan Leaf site and at the T esla site
http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=18907&start=1850#p519226
Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

Previously on this thread -
Re: Comparing the Soul EV battery with the Ioniq EV I had noted -
1/ The 2017 B olt battery pack is 60 kWh and weighs 435kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 138 Wh/kg
2/ The I oniq EV battery pack is 31 kWh and weighs 271.8kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 114 Wh/kg

I have now realised why GM for the B olt has chosen a more energy dense battery cell than Hyundai. (or GM for the V olt)
From a comment by Jeff N on the T esla Forum

...it’s more about cell construction than cell chemistry. They optimized the thickness of the cathode, anode, and conductive copper and aluminum collector foils in the Bolt cells to get the highest energy density whereas in the Volt they aimed to enable higher power capability.
The cell specifications, such as we know them from unofficial sources, are quite different. The Bolt cells may be max 2C continuous discharge with a 10 second peak discharge rate of 3.5C whereas the Volt cells may have been rated for 10C continuous discharge. In return for that lower design power, Bolt cells appear to be quite a bit more energy dense.

The cell chemistry in the B olt means the fast charging will be slower and taper earlier. But it has higher energy density = a bigger battery in the same space.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

wouldnt buy this junker, no one else dwould and GM knows it

Chevrolet Bolt right-hand drive still off the cards, GM president says | CarAdvice

GM can't make enough to care about RHD markets. It's all but pulled out of Europe, so the UK, Japan is a tough market for foreign manufacturers (Germans do best and they're well under half their US share), it pulled out of India* and other large RHD markets are low cost.

* India has large import tariffs, so Tata can stick their i-Pace.

 

[bro1999]

Can you post a grab when SOC is at an indicated 100%?

At 87% SOC

 

[diamond.g]

At 87% SOC
View attachment 282351

So full battery is probably at 4.2V. Wonder if the system stops charging at 4.1ish volts and uses the rest for the upper limit buffer. To allow drivers to keep regen.

 

[bro1999]

So full battery is probably at 4.2V. Wonder if the system stops charging at 4.1ish volts and uses the rest for the upper limit buffer. To allow drivers to keep regen.

If the battery voltage vs SOC% chart is linear, a flat battery would register ~3.15V and at 100% it would be right at 4.1V. All data I've observed via TorquePro indicates the Bolt has a ~3.5% buffer at the top and bottom of the battery (usable SOC window ~3.5% - 96.5%) and thus an overall battery size of ~64 kWh.

Coincidentally (or not) the KIA Niro EV is advertised having a 64 kWh battery and 238 miles of range. I wonder if the Niro is using the same battery as the Bolt, but Kia is advertising the total capacity versus the usable capacity GM seems to be quoting.