Can Someone Explain To Me Why The LR RWD Is Going Away?

[11thIndian]

I'm supremely curious. If it was still offered as a config on the website I'd have to imagine it would be one of the most popular configurations. Even with it "off menu", the "LR RWD Waiting Room" thread is proof of people's continued interest.

With the more expensive S and X that Dual Motor istandard makes more sense, but with the Model 3 (and next year with the Model Y) there's lots of reasons for people to want the longest range and not dual motor, if they live in southern states or other countries where winter weather isn't a big concern.

Are we living in a bubble and really no one is buying them? Or could it be it's the least profitable Model 3 config?

Thoughts?

 

[Sully151]

The salesman at my dealer said it was one of their best sellers.

I thought it was still available “off the menu” they said it was 2-3 weeks to get one.

Maybe they are stockingng up for the Y.

 

[11thIndian]

The salesman at my dealer said it was one of their best sellers.

I thought it was still available “off the menu” they said it was 2-3 weeks to get one.

Maybe they are stockingng up for the Y.

It has been available off menu since it was removed from the website, but in the last week they are no longer taking new orders. So unless you’re lucky enough to have gotten your order in before now, the only way to get a LR RWD is inventory or used.

 

[Lunares]

LR RWD will come back at some point. Just like the SR with cloth seats most likely.

Right now Tesla model 3 is production constrained (model S/X are a different story). Specifically they are still battery constrained (GF1 running at 24GWh per year instead of 35 for undisclosed reasons. Both Tesla and Panasonic not wanting to build out more lines yet). At 24 GWh that's 430k SR+ or 320k LR per year, assuming no powerwall/energy supply.

Since they are battery constrained, their goal is most profit per battery. The SR+ uses less batteries so even though they make less per car, they sell more cars. P3D has great margins and lowest demand so easy to keep that on the menu.

But an LR RWD vs LR AWD uses the same batteries, but Tesla makes more selling an AWD. And for the batteries in 3 SRs they can only sell 2 RWDs and they make more selling 3 SRs.

So LR RWD will be discontinued until demand drops (and Tesla isnt battery constrained) or Tesla expands battery production

 

[boaterva]

LR RWD will come back at some point. Just like the SR with cloth seats most likely.

Right now Tesla model 3 is production constrained (model S/X are a different story). Specifically they are still battery constrained (GF1 running at 24GWh per year instead of 35 for undisclosed reasons. Both Tesla and Panasonic not wanting to build out more lines yet). At 24 GWh that's 430k SR+ or 320k LR per year, assuming no powerwall/energy supply.

Since they are battery constrained, their goal is most profit per battery. The SR+ uses less batteries so even though they make less per car, they sell more cars. P3D has great margins and lowest demand so easy to keep that on the menu.

But an LR RWD vs LR AWD uses the same batteries, but Tesla makes more selling an AWD. And for the batteries in 3 SRs they can only sell 2 RWDs and they make more selling 3 SRs.

So LR RWD will be discontinued until demand drops (and Tesla isnt battery constrained) or Tesla expands battery production

The LR suspension (of sales lol) is a time-saver, as you say, until they get some of the backlog out of the way or they get enough profit from AWD sales.

Not sure your logic of the SR cloth seats, since those have never existed and to make a special set of seats in-house for the one cheapest model of the 3 seems totally counterproductive. Which is why it wasn’t done in the first place. The Ultrafabric seats are supposedly to be a free upgrade, not worse than cloth (which were originally the ‘cheap’ version).

 

[OCR1]

LR RWD was discontinued last year and then brought back early this year. I’m not exactly sure what the logic is behind those decisions but I suspect it will make a comeback in the near future. It’s the perfect car for Californians who would prefer the extra range and don’t generally drive in winter like conditions. And California is their biggest market in North America so they can only go so long without offering the model before sales will be impacted here.

The AWD model is nice but an extra $4K, 15 fewer miles, and little benefit in warm weather climates just doesn’t make sense to most of us. The extra speed is nice but not enough to justify another $4K in my opinion. For now the gap between SR+ and LR AWD is too wide.

 

[TMThree]

The gap is actually perfect.

It's 40k for the "small"
it's 50k for the "medium"
and its 60k for the "large"

 

[golfpilot]

I have the Dual Motor with aero wheels and a family member has RWD with Sport wheels. We get roughly the same WH/MI going the same speed on the same road. The Dual Motor has two motors that need to work less, probably better for reliability. Dual Motor also doesn't require as many tire rotations (and tires last longer). My dual motor is at 27k miles with one tire rotation at 20k miles and their is still a ton of tread left. I will make it to 40k miles easy.

 

[Boomer543]

I have the Dual Motor with aero wheels and a family member has RWD with Sport wheels. We get roughly the same WH/MI going the same speed on the same road. The Dual Motor has two motors that need to work less, probably better for reliability. Dual Motor also doesn't require as many tire rotations (and tires last longer). My dual motor is at 27k miles with one tire rotation at 20k miles and their is still a ton of tread left. I will make it to 40k miles easy.

Curious. Why are fewer tire rotations required for AWD? Because power is distributed more evenly to all four tires?

 

[dhrivnak]

I'm supremely curious. If it was still offered as a config on the website I'd have to imagine it would be one of the most popular configurations. Even with it "off menu", the "LR RWD Waiting Room" thread is proof of people's continued interest.

With the more expensive S and X that Dual Motor istandard makes more sense, but with the Model 3 (and next year with the Model Y) there's lots of reasons for people to want the longest range and not dual motor, if they live in southern states or other countries where winter weather isn't a big concern.

Are we living in a bubble and really no one is buying them? Or could it be it's the least profitable Model 3 config?

Thoughts?

Yes I think this is sad as it pushes up the price of the car and not everyone needs this. Tesla makes it extremely hard to keep up with prices and options. Far worse than my last ICE vehicle. The off menu options are especially annoying. It costs $0 to allow those options to be shown.

 

[boaterva]

Curious. Why are fewer tire rotations required for AWD? Because power is distributed more evenly to all four tires?

Theoretically, yes, if both motors/axles are used all the time. Especially if you do a lot of ‘launches’ and the like, definitely a different with all wheels powered and the soft tread.

I don’t recall the 3’s final config. Are both motors going all the time (more or less)? On the S and X, it’s speed related where the front one takes over at highway speed.

I assume regen comes into it also, where there’s more wear (equalizing) on the front tires with AWD.

Our 3 (AWD) seems to have pretty equal wear on all four tires, need to get out my depth gauge and see how exactly they are doing.

 

[OCR1]

The gap is actually perfect.

It's 40k for the "small"
it's 50k for the "medium"
and its 60k for the "large"

When I bought my LR RWD in March the price was $43K. I did not care about AP or FSD so $43K (plus destination) was the final price.

The starting price for the AWD is $49,900. I would not have personally be willing to pay this much for a car. With taxes and fees it’s approaching $60K which is above my comfort zone.

And the SR with only 240 miles of range is just not sufficient for me. So at the current lineup if I were to buy today I would probably not be a Tesla owner.

And the numbers only look worse after next week when the tax credit drops again.

 

[TomT]

I had no need or want for AWD and preferred the lower price and better range of LR RWD. So far, my tire wear has been excellent (no rotations to date) and I can buy a hell of a lot of tires with the savings!

 

[boriszima]

Curious. Why are fewer tire rotations required for AWD? Because power is distributed more evenly to all four tires?

yes. When car accelerates, force is applied somewhat equally to all the tires in AWD setup. With RWD or FWD, only one of the axis set of tires is used to push the car. This is why there is a thread here where one model 3 rwd owner had to replace tires under 10K, of course was likely mashing pedal any red light he got.

 

[omkar]

In line with what is stated above, my guess it that they are trying to maximize # of deliveries and margin given their battery production constraints.

 

[VT_EE]

LR RWD will come back at some point. Just like the SR with cloth seats most likely.

Right now Tesla model 3 is production constrained (model S/X are a different story). Specifically they are still battery constrained (GF1 running at 24GWh per year instead of 35 for undisclosed reasons. Both Tesla and Panasonic not wanting to build out more lines yet). At 24 GWh that's 430k SR+ or 320k LR per year, assuming no powerwall/energy supply.

Since they are battery constrained, their goal is most profit per battery. The SR+ uses less batteries so even though they make less per car, they sell more cars. P3D has great margins and lowest demand so easy to keep that on the menu.

But an LR RWD vs LR AWD uses the same batteries, but Tesla makes more selling an AWD. And for the batteries in 3 SRs they can only sell 2 RWDs and they make more selling 3 SRs.

So LR RWD will be discontinued until demand drops (and Tesla isnt battery constrained) or Tesla expands battery production

Very well explained!

 

[SanDiegoM3]

I’m happy with AWD. I parked on the beach in heavy sand and as I attempted to leave I sensed the vehicle struggling to move and I bet if I had RWD I would’ve been stuck.

These cars are heavier than people realize. Just wait till you’re in heavy snow for that once or twice a year trip.

 

[Big Earl]

Yes I think this is sad as it pushes up the price of the car and not everyone needs this. Tesla makes it extremely hard to keep up with prices and options. Far worse than my last ICE vehicle. The off menu options are especially annoying. It costs $0 to allow those options to be shown.

This isn't about what "everyone needs." This is about what Tesla needs to do to stay alive and continue to expand. It's the same reason why there are so few paint options: increased production complexity costs the company more money and slows down production. At some point when they bring more factories online (Gigafactory China, Gigafactory Europe), production pressure will ease, revenues will increase and Tesla will be able to think about adding more variety. They're selling every vehicle they can build right now, so the focus must be on maximizing production efficiency and gross margin.

 

[Lunares]

The LR suspension (of sales lol) is a time-saver, as you say, until they get some of the backlog out of the way or they get enough profit from AWD sales.

Not sure your logic of the SR cloth seats, since those have never existed and to make a special set of seats in-house for the one cheapest model of the 3 seems totally counterproductive. Which is why it wasn’t done in the first place. The Ultrafabric seats are supposedly to be a free upgrade, not worse than cloth (which were originally the ‘cheap’ version).

No way you can convince me that the cost of ultrafabric is low enough that the margin gained by cloth isn't worth it. But I can easily be convinced the cost to change up the production line to deal with things like cloth seats and no glass roof and any body stamp changes would be way too much compared to the sales.

Right now, Tesla has no problem selling SR+'s at 40k each. I think eventually we will see a return of the true SR model that was originally promised with no glass roof, cloth seats, no power or heated seats etc as a cheaper model to draw people in. But right now there just isn't the ability to create a line for that and they would lose money doing so. Maybe when they change up the lines for Model Y production, or as a line in the China GF factory. Either way wouldn't anticipate seeing this until demand slows.

 

[boaterva]

No way you can convince me that the cost of ultrafabric is low enough that the margin gained by cloth isn't worth it. But I can easily be convinced the cost to change up the production line to deal with things like cloth seats and no glass roof and any body stamp changes would be way too much compared to the sales.

Right now, Tesla has no problem selling SR+'s at 40k each. I think eventually we will see a return of the true SR model that was originally promised with no glass roof, cloth seats, no power or heated seats etc as a cheaper model to draw people in. But right now there just isn't the ability to create a line for that and they would lose money doing so. Maybe when they change up the lines for Model Y production, or as a line in the China GF factory. Either way wouldn't anticipate seeing this until demand slows.

When they can get more profit (I bet) by cutting out software features? Marginal cost $zero.

Then people may still buy the SR because they can upgrade it. Can’t do that if you have a metal roof (never been seen, either) and cloth seats.

We can wait and see the answer to this, down the road.

BTW, nothing in GF3 is for domestic consumption (meaning the US) and we’ll have to see if *that* ever changes.