Battery Warranty not unlimited miles?

[R.S]

Many of us thought Tesla's newer motors and batteries were really reliable too until this warranty info about Model 3 motor and batteries came out.

Tesla is a BMW competitor, so it's just they are trying to replicate the reliability experience.

I don't know, we'll have to wait and see how the Model 3 holds up, but anyone saying that Teslas are reliable is just lying to themselves. It's often confused with the general statement that EVs don't need as much maintenance and that there are less parts that can break, but this hasn't been the case for Teslas, so far.

I'll also be interested in how expensive servicing it will be. Because if it's as expensive as my Model S, there will be many surprised first time Tesla owners.

 

[Brian-MS90D]

Why are there so many non-Tesla owners on this site trying to convince Tesla owners not to like Tesla? lol

 

[SmartElectric]

general statement that EVs don't need as much maintenance and that there are less parts that can break

We have 100,000 km of all-EV driving:

My little Smart ED has been almost flawless. $3 tail light bulb being the only unscheduled maintenance. The scheduled maintenance was standard for any car, brake fluid flush after two years (can't be too careful in northern climates with getting water in brake lines) and manufacturer required maintenance (Smart has a battery desiccant filter, a $30 part).

The Tesla is a different story, we've had three repair items, the rear motor for a slight noise, cabin heater core, battery heater core. We bought CPO, so this is a 4.5 year old car, and we're averaging one repair per year. The Tesla gets far more long distance use, about triple the mileage, so there is that.

As for my other gas cars, in 700,000 km with them, three blown engines, two transmissions, two with severe electrical faults, and ironically half a dozen 12V battery replacements.

 

[JeffK]

Why are there so many non-Tesla owners on this site trying to convince Tesla owners not to like Tesla? lol

There aren't, instead we are trying to hold Tesla to Tesla's own standards yet, as far as this thread is concerned, we see them reverting to their old ways and the ways of ICE manufacturers.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

In their defense, many of the initial drive unit failures were due to a greasing problem that was later solved by having the work done by machine.

Musk first said the DU noise was caused by loose cables that is easily fixed with a simple cable tie. That was the first story, didn't pan out. Then the story changed to improperly greased splines. In the meantime, Tesla quickly iterated about 5 different drive unit revisions (letters L through P, maybe beyond). The story seemed to keep changing, so low confidence level about the statements.

I just do not understand the "sky is falling" view of some posters here on this topic. No one is forcing you or anyone to buy a Model 3 or any Tesla vehicle. There will be 1M+ buyers over the next few years who will purchase the Model 3 regardless of whether it has the current or a future better DU warranty and despite many Model 3 flaws, just like the iPhones have many flaws. Those buyers will be more than willing to take on the extra financial risk of a less than amazing DU warranty. You either want it or you don't. The Model 3 will not be within financial reach for most buyers.

So the car is going to sell well, therefore none of us should talk about it? LOL

Because Tesla learned what went wrong on the old large motors and designed the new small "dual" motors to not have the same problems.

Correct, while the new drive units may have completely new and different issues. Tesla doesn't know what it doesn't know, a new design may have issues. Given Tesla's track record with drive units, my confidence level is not high.

Got libel insurance?

Does anyone here, for that matter? lol

 

[JeffK]

Musk first said the DU noise was caused by loose cables that is easily fixed with a simple cable tie. That was the first story, didn't pan out. Then the story changed to improperly greased splines. In the meantime, Tesla quickly iterated about 5 different drive unit revisions (letters L through P, maybe beyond). The story seemed to keep changing, so low confidence level about the statements.

Usually in engineering you keep trying things until you figure out exactly what the root cause of the issues are. This is common practice so your confidence should be much higher not lower.

Here's the quote from Q3 2015 is anyone is interested:

Daniel V. Galves - Credit Suisse Securities (USA) LLC (Broker)

Okay. Maybe just to squeeze in one more. The newer drive unit, how is kind of the quality level been on that versus I think you had kind of a bigger drive unit that you used initially for the first couple of years?

Elon Reeve Musk - Chairman & Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, right now, we're actually very happy with the quality of the drive units. I mean, internally, our goal – we changed the goal of the drive unit endurance from being approximately 200,000 miles to being 1 million miles. Just basically we want drive units that just never wear out. That's our goal. And I think we've made really good progress in that direction. So the drive units going out now and for the last several months have been excellent. So...

Jeffrey B. Straubel - Chief Technology Officer

Yeah, we should probably note that, I mean, we've also made improvements to the large drive unit and those issues were really limited to early population large drive units. So today we hold the same standard on both units that are being built.

Elon Reeve Musk - Chairman & Chief Executive Officer

Yeah, exactly. There was like this one period of time where we had, I mean, it was like that was getting into the weeds, like we transitioned from manual, just before we transitioned to automatic grease injection into the spline of the large drive unit, we had variation in how much grease was put into the spline. And if not enough grease was put into the spline, it would have premature wear. That's, like, one example. But other than that, the large drive units have been great.

 

[Tesmotorfaqcom]

If the drive unit will last a million miles then infinite miles warranty would not cost Tesla anything?

 

[cwerdna]

If the drive unit will last a million miles then infinite miles warranty would not cost Tesla anything?

Yeah. But we've not seen any evidence of Tesla's DUs lasting that long. And, they're not offering this "infinite miles" DU warranty on the Model 3.

Remember, it's a goal and that one has to translate what comes out of Elon's mouth, Twitter account, etc. to reality. And look at the timeline of his comment and that the DU's for the past several months before he made it as "excellent". Tell that to folks who are on the 7th+ DU or had total failures in 2016 and beyond at Battery Warranty not unlimited miles?.

 

[insaneoctane]

Let's hope Elon learned from their own "hubris" on Model X. Shortly after the night of March 31st, when he realized just how popular & mainstream the Model 3 had become I'm hoping he put on his big boy pants, ditched the space controls to simplify the vehicle for simpler mfg and higher reliability that all these new customers were going to expect....

 

[internalaudit]

Sounds like some fans think everyone with major issues with their Tesla will register here and start bickering.

Since when is the number of complaints on public forums equal to the total number of complaints?

 

[internalaudit]

Usually in engineering you keep trying things until you figure out exactly what the root cause of the issues are. This is common practice so your confidence should be much higher not lower.

Here's the quote from Q3 2015 is anyone is interested:

Before or after they are released to the public if the fix cannot be done by software/firmware upgrade?

 

[JeffK]

Before or after they are released to the public if the fix cannot be done by software/firmware upgrade?

Just like in software development, you can test all day long and users will always figure out a way to break it. This is one of the reasons the Model 3 is going to employees first. They want that fast feedback loop.

You go through several iterations, you release to the public... then several more iterations based on your feedback or any issues that crop up.

 

[MP3Mike]

We have 100,000 km of all-EV driving:

My little Smart ED has been almost flawless. $3 tail light bulb being the only unscheduled maintenance.

The Tesla is a different story, we've had three repair items, the rear motor for a slight noise, cabin heater core, battery heater core. We bought CPO, so this is a 4.5 year old car, and we're averaging one repair per year. The Tesla gets far more long distance use, about triple the mileage, so there is that.

@SmartElectric Isn't the Smart ED powered by a Tesla powertrain/battery combination? Or did you have one of the newer ones that doesn't have Tesla parts?

 

[SmartElectric]

@SmartElectric Isn't the Smart ED powered by a Tesla powertrain/battery combination? Or did you have one of the newer ones that doesn't have Tesla parts?

My 2013 Smart ED has a German made battery, cells and motor. Daimler sold off the subsidiary making the cells, which is a shame, as they have aged extremely well, I have no degradation whatsoever on my Smart ED according to the amp-hour measurement provided in my one and only maintenance checkup. The cells are a safer chemistry NMC, so are not a dense as Tesla cells, but are cooled/heated and managed well by the Smart control systems. Quite a high tech car for a little runabout!

The Smart with Tesla parts was a previous generation that was leased in a few places, tightly controlled and managed by Smart about 2 years before the 2013 general availability of the Smart ED on the 451 chassis.

Daimler has gone to a brand new battery cell made by a third party for their latest 2017+ Smart ED based on the excellent and new 452 chassis. I am considering upgrading, as we get $13K rebate on a Smart ED here in Ontario Canada ... hard to resist.

 

[hill]

We have 100,000 km of all-EV driving:

My little Smart ED has been almost flawless. $3 tail light bulb being the only unscheduled maintenance .....snip......

that's understandable that it'd be reliable - after all it's not a rolling PC lab like our X, w/ more gizmo's than many know are legally allowed. Probably 400 or so more things to go south, than on the Smart, or 500e, or the eScion, or Leaf etc. Tesla has many of us, because it's the only game in town, if an owner wants lots of bling & power & long range . . . . fit and finish be damned !!

.

 

[gambit48]

Our BMW had the moonroof go in for service after opening it 3 times. You can google BMW window regulator and see how often those things fail. DW's wife's boss tried to talk down Tesla's reliability citing a few examples here and there. Her response, "Psshhh, I owned a BMW". And yes, ours was made in Germany.

TLDR: using BMW as a comparison for quality isn't a very high bar

 

[rxlawdude]

that's understandable that it'd be reliable - after all it's not a rolling PC lab like our X, w/ more gizmo's than many know are legally allowed. Probably 400 or so more things to go south, than on the Smart, or 500e, or the eScion, or Leaf etc. Tesla has many of us, because it's the only game in town, if an owner wants lots of bling & power & long range . . . . fit and finish be damned !!

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Hey Hill, good to see you here. I remember you from priuschat.

 

[hill]

Hey Hill, good to see you here. I remember you from priuschat.

likewise! What- no more scuba avatar?

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[rxlawdude]

likewise! What- no more scuba avatar?

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My scuba days are over, sadly, between a blown ear and non-diving bride. My 2004 Prius was given to my son @165K miles, and he drove it another 90K miles before he bought a brand new 2016 model. And my 2014 PiP went to my best friend, who loves it and is thinking about a Tesla.

If I recall, didn't you defect to a Model S before me?

 

[hill]

Maybe around the same time - new 2016, one of the 1st AP2's - 3yr cancer-free celebration gift ;
(it went wrong)

after dozens of test drives, saying she was comfortable with the Next Generation seat, a couple hundred miles later,
"I'm not comfortable sitting this low"
so ... just 200 miles later & a $20K depreciation hit from selling
it ..... she's happy in the SUV ....

won't someone please just kill me ....

you wouldn't believe how many people have asked about the Priuschat sticker on the bumper ...

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