Basic Autopilot Limits “Smart Cruise Control” to +5mph SPEED LIMIT MAX…???

[THEbuz]

I took delivery of my 2023 Model Y (LR/AWD) NOV2022, and I’ve never owned a TESLA before.

After more than 3mos now, it seems clear that my Model Y knows the difference between “the freeway” and just any other road.

NOTE: Where I live, there is only one “freeway” (i.e. Interstate) to speak of that runs through the populated area.

When I use AP on the freeway, I can set my AP MAX speed up to 85mph. With every other road—even four lane highways with 55mph SPEED LIMIT—the MAX speed that AP will permit me to set is ONLY +5mph over the SPEED LIMIT.

Is this a known thing? Has anyone else noticed this?

Also—on a side note, though related to AP—I can pretty much state unequivocally that AP uses the internal camera above the rear view mirror to determine when/if I am holding my cell phone. The normal flashing blue that appears on the upper-left side of the screen after about 20-30 seconds to tell me to place my hands on the wheel will occur about every 3-5 seconds if/when I am holding my cell phone and/or if it cannot tell that I have a hand on the wheel. (I often hold the wheel from the bottom with my hand comfortably in my lap, which is sometimes difficult to be seen from the camera above my rear view mirror.) This is cheeky, and I think I’m going to cover that internal camera.

 

[legendsk]

Where this becomes a deal breaker for me is: the 4 lane divided highways here typically have a 75 mph speed limit, with a min of 45 mph. That means about half of the drivers run 80 and the other half, 60 to 75. But since my Y believes the speed limit is 25 mph about half of the time and it won't go over 30 mph, it makes AP unusable. It may go 10 to 20 miles believing the speed limit is 25 and then will suddenly change to 75, no signs or any other indication to trigger the change.

 

[TresLA]

I took delivery of my 2023 Model Y (LR/AWD) NOV2022, and I’ve never owned a TESLA before.

After more than 3mos now, it seems clear that my Model Y knows the difference between “the freeway” and just any other road.

NOTE: Where I live, there is only one “freeway” (i.e. Interstate) to speak of that runs through the populated area.

When I use AP on the freeway, I can set my AP MAX speed up to 85mph. With every other road—even four lane highways with 55mph SPEED LIMIT—the MAX speed that AP will permit me to set is ONLY +5mph over the SPEED LIMIT.

Is this a known thing? Has anyone else noticed this?

Also—on a side note, though related to AP—I can pretty much state unequivocally that AP uses the internal camera above the rear view mirror to determine when/if I am holding my cell phone. The normal flashing blue that appears on the upper-left side of the screen after about 20-30 seconds to tell me to place my hands on the wheel will occur about every 3-5 seconds if/when I am holding my cell phone and/or if it cannot tell that I have a hand on the wheel. (I often hold the wheel from the bottom with my hand comfortably in my lap, which is sometimes difficult to be seen from the camera above my rear view mirror.) This is cheeky, and I think I’m going to cover that internal camera.

Yes, 5 MPH over the speed limit on (most) surface streets has been the case for as long as I can remember. If you find your Tesla not willing to illegally speed then you will have to drive manually. The only exception to this is if you enroll in the FSD beta program, but funnily enough NHTSA is naming this ability for FSDb to speed as one of the reasons why they’re removing these safety features. Makes you wonder why they’ve never “recalled” cars with cruise control that can go over the speed limit.

The in-cabin camera has been used to check for driver attentiveness for awhile now. And as for as covering up the in-cabin camera, your Tesla will eventually notice and disable autopilot until it’s uncovered. You can blame all those that tried exactly what you thought of trying.

 

[TresLA]

Where this becomes a deal breaker for me is: the 4 lane divided highways here typically have a 75 mph speed limit, with a min of 45 mph. That means about half of the drivers run 80 and the other half, 60 to 75. But since my Y believes the speed limit is 25 mph about half of the time and it won't go over 30 mph, it makes AP unusable. It may go 10 to 20 miles believing the speed limit is 25 and then will suddenly change to 75, no signs or any other indication to trigger the change.

This is either a GPS error or a mapping error. You should report it (try “bug-report” voice command, then create a service ticket in the Tesla app and mention your created bug reports) and/or you should check “open street maps” website (openstreetmap.org) for the speed limit and road data for the sections that are consistently showing that incorrect behavior. Submit change requests.

 

[Supcom]

This is either a GPS error or a mapping error. You should report it (try “bug-report” voice command, then create a service ticket in the Tesla app and mention your created bug reports) and/or you should check “open street maps” website (openstreetmap.org) for the speed limit and road data for the sections that are consistently showing that incorrect behavior. Submit change requests.

I would hope that Tesla is not using openstreetmap for speed limit data! Anyone can edit data in OSM and set speed limits to whatever they want. As far as I can tell, there is no formal required review of changes. I update road surface types for a county near me and the changes appear within minutes of uploading the edits.

 

[TresLA]

I would hope that Tesla is not using openstreetmap for speed limit data! Anyone can edit data in OSM and set speed limits to whatever they want. As far as I can tell, there is no formal required review of changes. I update road surface types for a county near me and the changes appear within minutes of uploading the edits.

Tesla seems to use a combination of Google Maps data, Open Street Maps data, real-time visual data (i.e. - what speed limit the cameras see), etc. And so yes, Open Street Maps can definitely help incorrect mapping data. Keep in mind, Tesla doesn’t seem to update in car navigation maps in real-time yet. Hence, why we have Navi versions listed in the software page and the car periodically requests to connect to wifi to update navigation/maps data.

 

[THEbuz]

Where this becomes a deal breaker for me is: the 4 lane divided highways here typically have a 75 mph speed limit, with a min of 45 mph. That means about half of the drivers run 80 and the other half, 60 to 75. But since my Y believes the speed limit is 25 mph about half of the time and it won't go over 30 mph, it makes AP unusable. It may go 10 to 20 miles believing the speed limit is 25 and then will suddenly change to 75, no signs or any other indication to trigger the change.

 

[BitJam]

When I use AP on the freeway, I can set my AP MAX speed up to 85mph. With every other road—even four lane highways with 55mph SPEED LIMIT—the MAX speed that AP will permit me to set is ONLY +5mph over the SPEED LIMIT.

Is this a known thing? Has anyone else noticed this?

Here in rural New Mexico the +5 mph limit is only for "in town" where I normally feel safest driving at the speed limit anyway. The border between +5 and no limit is not the town boundary. There are many parts of town that have no limit. For example, there is no limit on an often congested, less than two mile, stretch of our main road with 4 traffic lights, two of our three grocery stores and plenty of traffic.

Also—on a side note, though related to AP—I can pretty much state unequivocally that AP uses the internal camera above the rear view mirror to determine when/if I am holding my cell phone. The normal flashing blue that appears on the upper-left side of the screen after about 20-30 seconds to tell me to place my hands on the wheel will occur about every 3-5 seconds if/when I am holding my cell phone and/or if it cannot tell that I have a hand on the wheel. (I often hold the wheel from the bottom with my hand comfortably in my lap, which is sometimes difficult to be seen from the camera above my rear view mirror.) This is cheeky, and I think I’m going to cover that internal camera.

This was after pestering/insistence by NHTSA. It's probably the same with the +5 mph limit. NHTSA also insisted that Tesla disable the boombox feature while driving because all the sound it generates will make it hard for blind people to hear the car. I kid you not.

I imagine you've heard about the recent Tesla "recall" of 300K+ cars due to dangers reported by NHTSA. They have the power to shut down all of Tesla's FSD efforts which would be devastating for the company. So Tesla takes reports from NHTSA very seriously, even the silly and stupid ones. Another example: FSD is forbidden from doing rolling stops at stop signs even though this is normal behavior for almost all humans and performing a full stop pisses off people driving behind the Tesla.

Worse, there are a number of people like Clown O'Dowd and Missy Cummings who use these sometimes nutty "recalls" to spread lies and FUD about Tesla and FSD. Their competing financial interests (self driving companies that will go bankrupt if FSD succeeds) are seldom disclosed in their anti-Tesla screeds. So Tesla has to tread a fine line between annoying its customers and getting in trouble with NHTSA.

If the +5 mph limit is hampering your use of AP, that's a bummer. Here I use AP for about 80% of my driving and it has been grand. It even saved the life of a young deer that darted in front of my car last fall. In my town I know to within about 20 feet where the boundaries of the +5 mph limit are.

 

[epicshooter]

Best I can tell this is on double yellow line roads, if there is a divider it will stop the nonsense. Also- you can set speed to whatever you want, it is only autosteer that refuses to allow anything beyond 5mph over on these secondary roads.
I have a model S though and I do see differences in how AP works on different models.

 

[Dewg]

NHTSA also insisted that Tesla disable the boombox feature while driving because all the sound it generates will make it hard for blind people to hear the car. I kid you not.

Close, but you have it backwards. The boom box feature was forced off while driving because people were having it play custom sound files of total silence, which is a problem for blind people as the car then made no noise while traveling at slow speeds or reversing.

 

[BitJam]

Close, but you have it backwards. The boom box feature was forced off while driving because people were having it play custom sound files of total silence, which is a problem for blind people as the car then made no noise while traveling at slow speeds or reversing.

That's interesting. I never heard it before. Do you have a citation? The silent audio file problem is not even mentioned in this Electrek article which was the first hit when I searched for evidence to back your claim. They only talk about compliance with FMVSS 141.

Tesla is asked to disable Boombox feature when in drive, NHTSA deems it a safety risk

Tesla was hit by yet another recall today as NHTSA asked the automaker to disable its Boombox feature, which allows...

electrek.co

They quote NHTSA:

While Boombox can enhance the conspicuity of the vehicle to pedestrians, a vehicle that uses Boombox when in motion may cause the PWS to be noncompliant with FMVSS 141, which could increase the risk of a collision. Tesla is not aware of any crashes, injuries or fatalities related to this condition.​

 

[Dewg]

That's interesting. I never heard it before. Do you have a citation? The silent audio file problem is not even mentioned in this Electrek article which was the first hit when I searched for evidence to back your claim. They only talk about compliance with FMVSS 141.

Tesla is asked to disable Boombox feature when in drive, NHTSA deems it a safety risk

Tesla was hit by yet another recall today as NHTSA asked the automaker to disable its Boombox feature, which allows...

electrek.co

They quote NHTSA:

While Boombox can enhance the conspicuity of the vehicle to pedestrians, a vehicle that uses Boombox when in motion may cause the PWS to be noncompliant with FMVSS 141, which could increase the risk of a collision. Tesla is not aware of any crashes, injuries or fatalities related to this condition.​

Your NHTSA quote says it all. From NHTSA:

“On affected vehicles, the Boombox functionality allows a customer to play preset or custom sounds through the PWS external speaker when the vehicle is parked or in motion, including if Summon or Smart Summon is in use. While Boombox and the pedestrian alert sound are mutually exclusive sounds, sounds emitted using Boombox could be construed to obscure or prevent the PWS from complying with FMVSS 141 when the vehicle is in Drive, Neutral or Reverse, including if Summon or Smart Summon is in use. This recall supersedes Recall No. 22V-063,” the NHTSA’s Safety Recall Report read.

In this case I was referring to people preventing the sound from playing. There are numerous reddit threads of people asking how to make their Tesla totally silent, as they hate the PWS sounds.

 

[rjpjnk]

The in-cabin camera has been used to check for driver attentiveness for awhile now. And as for as covering up the in-cabin camera, your Tesla will eventually notice and disable autopilot until it’s uncovered. You can blame all those that tried exactly what you thought of trying.

I don’t think so. I have had my in-cabin camera covered for at least 6 months now and use autopilot every day with no issues.

 

[Supcom]

Your NHTSA quote says it all. From NHTSA:

“On affected vehicles, the Boombox functionality allows a customer to play preset or custom sounds through the PWS external speaker when the vehicle is parked or in motion, including if Summon or Smart Summon is in use. While Boombox and the pedestrian alert sound are mutually exclusive sounds, sounds emitted using Boombox could be construed to obscure or prevent the PWS from complying with FMVSS 141 when the vehicle is in Drive, Neutral or Reverse, including if Summon or Smart Summon is in use. This recall supersedes Recall No. 22V-063,” the NHTSA’s Safety Recall Report read.

In this case I was referring to people preventing the sound from playing. There are numerous reddit threads of people asking how to make their Tesla totally silent, as they hate the PWS sounds.

I seem to recall that boombox allowed you to set the volume of the external speaker when driving. So, in addition to playing a silent audio file, the driver could turn the volume below the minimum required for PWS. Music, of course, could have stretches that are low volume, so the driver might not intend to silence the PWS, but could end up doing so inadvertently.

I'm not sure why boombox could not have continued to be available when the car was in drive, as there is no PWS then. It seems like it would be simple matter to switch the speaker to the regular PWS sound in reverse, regardless of the boombox state. Perhaps Tesla could not switch the sound quickly enough to be compliant with regulations.

 

[THEbuz]

Here in rural New Mexico the +5 mph limit is only for "in town" where I normally feel safest driving at the speed limit anyway. The border between +5 and no limit is not the town boundary. There are many parts of town that have no limit. For example, there is no limit on an often congested, less than two mile, stretch of our main road with 4 traffic lights, two of our three grocery stores and plenty of traffic.

This was after pestering/insistence by NHTSA. It's probably the same with the +5 mph limit. NHTSA also insisted that Tesla disable the boombox feature while driving because all the sound it generates will make it hard for blind people to hear the car. I kid you not.

I imagine you've heard about the recent Tesla "recall" of 300K+ cars due to dangers reported by NHTSA. They have the power to shut down all of Tesla's FSD efforts which would be devastating for the company. So Tesla takes reports from NHTSA very seriously, even the silly and stupid ones. Another example: FSD is forbidden from doing rolling stops at stop signs even though this is normal behavior for almost all humans and performing a full stop pisses off people driving behind the Tesla.

Worse, there are a number of people like Clown O'Dowd and Missy Cummings who use these sometimes nutty "recalls" to spread lies and FUD about Tesla and FSD. Their competing financial interests (self driving companies that will go bankrupt if FSD succeeds) are seldom disclosed in their anti-Tesla screeds. So Tesla has to tread a fine line between annoying its customers and getting in trouble with NHTSA.

If the +5 mph limit is hampering your use of AP, that's a bummer. Here I use AP for about 80% of my driving and it has been grand. It even saved the life of a young deer that darted in front of my car last fall. In my town I know to within about 20 feet where the boundaries of the +5 mph limit are.

Great post! Thanks for chiming in, man.

I typically press the accelerator

Close, but you have it backwards. The boom box feature was forced off while driving because people were having it play custom sound files of total silence, which is a problem for blind people as the car then made no noise while traveling at slow speeds or reversing.

Does that mean that I don’t have to hear that lame “Jetson’s” lol-lol-lol sound when backing??? I hate that cheesy sound and would love to cut it w/o losing boombox and loudspeaker abilities!

 

[Dewg]

I'm not sure why boombox could not have continued to be available when the car was in drive, as there is no PWS then. It seems like it would be simple matter to switch the speaker to the regular PWS sound in reverse, regardless of the boombox state. Perhaps Tesla could not switch the sound quickly enough to be compliant with regulations.

NHTSA requires a PWS sound when travelling below 18mph, or in reverse. Easier to just disable boombox when in motion than trying to cut in and out of it when slowing down and speeding up.

 

[Dewg]

Does that mean that I don’t have to hear that lame “Jetson’s” lol-lol-lol sound when backing??? I hate that cheesy sound and would love to cut it w/o losing boombox and loudspeaker abilities!

It means the exact opposite. You used to be able to quite some time ago, but they removed that ability at NHTSA's request.

 

[THEbuz]

It means the exact opposite. You used to be able to quite some time ago, but they removed that ability at NHTSA's request.

I’ve seen YouTube videos on how to install a block to the wiring harness for that exterior speaker, but then it completely renders that speaker inoperable. I wish to have the Jetson’s leave me alone while retaining full utility of that external speaker for any other use, including Boombox.

 

[Supcom]

NHTSA requires a PWS sound when travelling below 18mph, or in reverse. Easier to just disable boombox when in motion than trying to cut in and out of it when slowing down and speeding up.

On my 21 M3LR, PWS is active only in reverse. Moving forward at slow speed is all but silent.

 

[Dewg]

On my 21 M3LR, PWS is active only in reverse. Moving forward at slow speed is all but silent.

You were lucky, you got it before they made it mandatory.