Auto lane change "randomly" refusing to work

[Abqnative]

I posted a reply to this in another thread on AP2 not available.but this thread is right on. I use auto steering on interstate highways in New England. I also can't lane change sometimes. Thanks for the helpful post about additional info in the binnacle. I will look for it next time. I have found that if I turn off lane assist then right away back on, I can change lanes. Somehow the reset "finds" the adjacent lane.

 

[Hugh Mannity]

What is "limited" vs a "non-limited" access highway? Never heard those terms before.

Does is simply mean limited has specific intersections vs roads every mile or so that intersect like in the prairies?

 

[Tam]

...What is "limited" vs a "non-limited" access highway?...

Owner's manual word is "limited-access roads" which has only an on-ramp and off-ramp as a way to access those roads.

"Autosteer is intended for use on freeways and highways where access is limited by entry and exit ramps"

You can't access those roads with intersections, and there should not be any pedestrians or bicycles except for highway-speed motorized vehicles.

 

[CameronB]

@CameronB I tested your theory today on Interstate Highway 43 between Milwaukee and Green Bay and again on State Highway WI-57 between Green Bay and Sturgeon Bay. There are many places where my console did not "see" an adjacent lane but happily changed lanes when I signaled.

Note: I'm using AP1; I-43 is a limited-access interstate highway; and, WI-57 is a 4-lane divided state highway with crossovers every few miles.

Thanks for the test. Maybe it's an AP2 only thing? Dunno. But so far (I'll keep looking) it is 100% consistent for me.

 

[CameronB]

It is not based only on what autopilot shows (sees) it is based on the mapping data that autopilot uses. You can only do auto lane change if the highway is identified as "limited access" in the database. In my recent trips there it stood out to me how many roads in California transition back and forth between limited access and non-limited access!

101 is a freeway so definitely limited access. My post is specific to AP2 "seeing" or "not seeing" adjacent lanes quite randomly. Or at least not in a consistent manner that I can deduce. 12:04pm, AP2 console shows my car and adjacent lanes left and right. 12:05pm, AP2 might show only the lane to the right. 12:08pm, it might not show either adjacent lane. This all happens on the same freeway/highway/"limited access" route and the real-world number of lanes have never changed. In all cases (for me anyhow) if AP could "see" those adjacent lanes, I could auto-change into them. Otherwise, no.

 

[CameronB]

I posted a reply to this in another thread on AP2 not available.but this thread is right on. I use auto steering on interstate highways in New England. I also can't lane change sometimes. Thanks for the helpful post about additional info in the binnacle. I will look for it next time. I have found that if I turn off lane assist then right away back on, I can change lanes. Somehow the reset "finds" the adjacent lane.

Yes, do report back your findings. For me, it was totally consistent on that trip. Now I will need to keep looking and see if that is always-always the case or there are other variables.

 

[donauker]

101 is a freeway so definitely limited access. My post is specific to AP2 "seeing" or "not seeing" adjacent lanes quite randomly. Or at least not in a consistent manner that I can deduce. 12:04pm, AP2 console shows my car and adjacent lanes left and right. 12:05pm, AP2 might show only the lane to the right. 12:08pm, it might not show either adjacent lane. This all happens on the same freeway/highway/"limited access" route and the real-world number of lanes have never changed. In all cases (for me anyhow) if AP could "see" those adjacent lanes, I could auto-change into them. Otherwise, no.

101 like a number of other highways in California has many areas that are limited access but it also has sections that are not limited access. I did find a few cases also where the database used by Tesla had not been updated to reflect some sections that had been upgraded to limited access. I believe 58 had several sections like that.

Below is an example of non limited access on 101
Google Maps

Update:
Actually using Google Maps it is easy to see the non limited access sections of 101. They are shown as a lighter yellow section on the maps. I count four rather lengthy sections between San Luis Obispo and Salinas.

 

[ecarfan]

In my experience, that is not correct. I do not think Tesla is limiting Auto Lane Change only to US interstate highways. I've had it work on other roads as well.

Thank you for pointing it out out, I should have stated that lane change currently works only on National Highways annotated on US maps with below insignia as an example.
View attachment 240546

 

[CameronB]

101 like a number of other highways in California has many areas that are limited access but it also has sections that are not limited access. I did find a few cases also where the database used by Tesla had not been updated to reflect some sections that had been upgraded to limited access. I believe 58 had several sections like that.

Below is an example of non limited access on 101
Google Maps

Update:
Actually using Google Maps it is easy to see the non limited access sections of 101. They are shown as a lighter yellow section on the maps. I count four rather lengthy sections between San Luis Obispo and Salinas.

Be that as it may, that was not my issue. I had the "yes, can auto lane change" and "no, can't see adjacent lane(s) so no auto change allowed" happen on the same stretch of 101, sometimes less than a minute apart. Absolutely it was not a factor (for me, anyhow). This happened to me on and off through my whole journey. 1 in 3 attempts of lane change were ignored due to either AP not "knowing" (via its internal maps/database and fleet learning) about how many lanes there were and/or the cameras not "seeing" those lanes.

But thanks for the info about how to identify the non-limited access sections on the Nav screen!

 

[MarcusMaximus]

Be that as it may, that was not my issue. I had the "yes, can auto lane change" and "no, can't see adjacent lane(s) so no auto change allowed" happen on the same stretch of 101, sometimes less than a minute apart. Absolutely it was not a factor (for me, anyhow). This happened to me on and off through my whole journey. 1 in 3 attempts of lane change were ignored due to either AP not "knowing" (via its internal maps/database and fleet learning) about how many lanes there were and/or the cameras not "seeing" those lanes.

But thanks for the info about how to identify the non-limited access sections on the Nav screen!

I'm pretty sure the conditions that have to be met are:

1. It's on a limited access road
2. It has a high enough confidence in its identification of the neighboring lane.
3. Speed is sufficiently high(seems to be ~35mph)

I've seen #2 fail because of shadows from the median, poor markings, and a few times for no discernible reason. I've also seen the car misidentify the shoulder as another available lane.

 

[Vortexx]

It is not based only on what autopilot shows (sees) it is based on the mapping data that autopilot uses. You can only do auto lane change if the highway is identified as "limited access" in the database. In my recent trips there it stood out to me how many roads in California transition back and forth between limited access and non-limited access!

This isn't my experience at all. I have noticed random behavior similar to what the OP states. Sometimes it will allow lane changes and sometimes it won't on the EXACT same stretch of road, under similar conditions. It appears to randomly not work sometimes, on the same route at the same time of day under nearly identical circumstances.

 

[Tangible]

Traveling on I-95 in MA yesterday I attempted an auto lane change twice. The adjacent lane was wide open. Instead of doing the change, the auto steer shut down, as if I had taken over steering. (My hands weren't touching the wheel at all.) I was able to re-activate it immediately. I've never seen this happen before, though I've often seen the system refuse to change lanes but remain activated.

Any explanation? By the way, on a return trip it worked well, so this isn't a settings issue.

 

[donauker]

I'm pretty sure the conditions that have to be met are:

1. It's on a limited access road
2. It has a high enough confidence in its identification of the neighboring lane.
3. Speed is sufficiently high(seems to be ~35mph)

I've seen #2 fail because of shadows from the median, poor markings, and a few times for no discernible reason. I've also seen the car misidentify the shoulder as another available lane.

I agree with your list and would just add the obvious one of nothing detected by the side sensors.

This will also include a delay of several seconds after the side sensors no longer show anything after passing a vehicle so I am not sure if they are using rear camera or just a delay. I would say they are also using radar or forward camera to detect vehicles ahead in adjacent lane since they appear as soon as you signal and will delay your lane change until they are clear.

This isn't my experience at all. I have noticed random behavior similar to what the OP states. Sometimes it will allow lane changes and sometimes it won't on the EXACT same stretch of road, under similar conditions. It appears to randomly not work sometimes, on the same route at the same time of day under nearly identical circumstances.

The post you quoted was probably not a clear as it could have been but I wasn't saying that what you are seeing can't happen. I was just saying that for AP2 success of auto lane change is not only based on what the camera sees but also on the database identifying the road section as limited access.

 

[CameronB]

I'm pretty sure the conditions that have to be met are:

1. It's on a limited access road
2. It has a high enough confidence in its identification of the neighboring lane.
3. Speed is sufficiently high(seems to be ~35mph)

I've seen #2 fail because of shadows from the median, poor markings, and a few times for no discernible reason. I've also seen the car misidentify the shoulder as another available lane.

Sure. This post is basically all about some sort of #2 or similar variation. The fact that the binacle display doesn't even show the adjacent lanes sometimes probably corresponds to it not having "confidence". But whether we call it "confidence" or "seeing" the lanes, I personally believe that is kind of the same thing. Or at least they are related to each other. I am more curious about why AP doesn't see/have confidence that a lane it just saw/was confident about - a moment ago - has "disappeared". Sunlight angle washing out a camera's peripheral vision, causing it to lose sight (or partially lose sight, leading to doubt/ low confidence the lane is still there)? Maybe. But if it works at 2:01pm and fails at 2:02pm a mile later on a flat stretch of highway, has the angle of the sun really changed in any meaningful or noticeable way? Lane marker striping/paint looks to me (human) to be identical at the two points as well. I don't know. I'll keep trying to find clues! Yes, I know it's beta. Beta=bugs. I am trying to help ascertain what factors may be contributing to the bugs. Software is deterministic. What seems "random" to us is 99% of the time not actually random. It may just be hard (sometimes extremely) to determine the pattern/combination of factors that leads to the deterministic undesired software result (bug).

 

[Joe F]

Bears repeating: Report each failure when there's a clear case (to you) that is should have worked, via the voice feedback method. Since it appears some areas/conditions cause the failure, Tesla would not know about it unless reported.

Only way it stands a chance of getting resolved...