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Tesla's Supercharger Team was recently laid off. We discuss what this means for the company on today's TMC Podcast streaming live at 1PM PDT. You can watch on X or on YouTube where you can participate in the live chat.
Any reports of model 3 caught on fire by itself ever?
- Thread starter CrazyM3
- Start date
CarlK
Active Member
You have totally missed the point. People are saying there are magnitudes more ICE car fires than EV fires yet you only hear EV and especially Tesla fire mentioned like that's the only time it matters. Regardless of how old or new a car is there will always be occupants in there. A fire is equally bad in any cars and should be equally news worthy.
As for your age argument I don't see the evidence that age is a significant factor for EV fires, and significant enough factor to account for that much lower statistics. The way you're trying to dismiss the difference is wildly speculative to say the least.
1 gallon of gas is about 37kWh of energy. So a Model 3 LR has about 2 gallons worth of energy.
However in reality a lit-ion fire is about the electrolyte combusting and this would contain a LOT of pent up chemical energy.
SammichLover
Banned
The charger itself, and the wiring in the wall behind it, is the real risk here. Faulty or incorrectly installed, I'd be surprised if this hasn't happened to a Tesla at some point (Model 3 or not) and presents an actual, if background, risk.
<edit> There have been garage fires reported with a Tesla in the garage. Unclear from the news reports what cause of fire was.
Yeah, EV charging is a good way to stress test your home circuits. If the wiring is not up to snuff it can be a fire risk. Chevy Volts had this issue, especially since they are often plugged into 120v outlets for charging. Enough of a problem that Chevy decreased the default charging amps to 8.
Swampgator
Active Member
This was the victim of the California wildfires, correct? Not a fire that started in the Model 3
Don't let facts get in the way of a good smear campaign.
SammichLover
Banned
Annoying as all get out, it doesn't matter how many times you plug into the same outlet. It'll force you to drill into the menus and set the charger to 12A, with a huge "you gonna burn your house down, sukka!" warning message.
Every time.But you're charging at 120V so 'annoyance' is your lot in life, anyway.
That Model 3 was involved in a house fire that started outside, near a gas meter. (Read the whole thread)
https://twitter.com/hoonable/status/1021522840070311936
Bozi Tatarevic on Twitter
https://twitter.com/hoonable/status/1021522840070311936
Bozi Tatarevic on Twitter
CarlK
Active Member
1 gallon of gas is about 37kWh of energy. So a Model 3 LR has about 2 gallons worth of energy.
However in reality a lit-ion fire is about the electrolyte combusting and this would contain a LOT of pent up chemical energy.
What gasoline contains is also chemical energy just a lot more in the tank.
Yes as I clearly stated. Gas is about 37kWh of (chemical) energy per gallon. We have no idea (or at least I don't) what the chemical energy of the electrolyte is but it is probably pretty high. Likely several 100kWh per pack.
SammichLover
Banned
That's like saying there's lots of chemical energy in the steel of the gas tank. Discharged Li batteries tend to be fairly stable, from a burning up POV. That's because everything in the battery has moved to the more chemically stable state, as the electric potential has been discharged.
chronopc
Active Member
CarlK
Active Member
I do. 100kWh for an 100kWh battery pack, give or take a little. Pretty straightforward.
Keep in mind that once a car goes up in flames, it may be burning more than what is in the tank or the batteries. The total potential energy output is going to be some combination of all of these things, including rubber, plastic, foam, etc.
According to the NHTSA, "Physics dictates that all energy sources have an inherent risk associated with their use, storage and handling. This concept applies equally to all petroleum-based fuels, hydraulic storage systems, mechanical or kinetic systems, or electric storage batteries."
At the same time, the NHTSA has put out several interim reports, stating:
Tesla has claimed that their vehicles pose less of a risk of fire than traditional ICE cars, and while the NHTSA has not stated the same, they have at least agreed that the potential risks are not higher. Many of the news reports we are reading are causing people to believe otherwise. It is important to note that this is not based on a real study, or statistics, but instead appears to be FUD.
On the subject of electrical battery fires, I found a couple of interesting developments in recent weeks.
- China has been working on a new battery technology that is not prone to igniting when punctured. I heard similar claims last year by professor Mike Zimmerman (Tufts University). You can read about it here: A Battery That Could Change The World
Here are some excerpts:
- I have seen videos of battery insulation that can prevent cell-to-cell ignition. Here is a YouTube video demonstrating this:
- In Europe this past week, firefighters submerged an entire Model S into a pool of water to prevent secondary ignitions. See: Tesla vehicle caught on fire while plugged in at Supercharger station - Electrek
According to the NHTSA, "Physics dictates that all energy sources have an inherent risk associated with their use, storage and handling. This concept applies equally to all petroleum-based fuels, hydraulic storage systems, mechanical or kinetic systems, or electric storage batteries."
At the same time, the NHTSA has put out several interim reports, stating:
NHTSA does not believe that electric vehicles present a greater risk of post-crash fire than gasoline-powered vehicles. In fact, all vehicles—both electric and gasoline-powered—have some risk of fire in the event of a serious crash.
Tesla has claimed that their vehicles pose less of a risk of fire than traditional ICE cars, and while the NHTSA has not stated the same, they have at least agreed that the potential risks are not higher. Many of the news reports we are reading are causing people to believe otherwise. It is important to note that this is not based on a real study, or statistics, but instead appears to be FUD.
On the subject of electrical battery fires, I found a couple of interesting developments in recent weeks.
- China has been working on a new battery technology that is not prone to igniting when punctured. I heard similar claims last year by professor Mike Zimmerman (Tufts University). You can read about it here: A Battery That Could Change The World
Here are some excerpts:
The NOVA documentary profiled the work of Professor Mike Zimmerman of Tufts University. Professor Zimmerman has developed a battery that replaces the liquid electrolyte in the battery with a flame-retardant plastic. This battery won't catch on fire if it is cut, punctured or crushed. In fact, it can continue to produce power despite significant damage.
Lithium ions produced at the lithium electrode travel through the plastic as quickly as they do a liquid electrolyte. The plastic also physically prevents the electrodes from forming the dendrites that can short out the battery. Lithium metal can be used for the negative electrode, which could potentially double the battery's energy density.
Professor Zimmerman's work has been done mostly in stealth. The NOVA special was reportedly the first television interview he had done on his work. He has formed a company, Ionic Materials, and recently raised $65 million to commercialize this solid-state battery. (Jump to the 30:40 mark in the video to see the portion on Professor Zimmerman's work).
Lithium ions produced at the lithium electrode travel through the plastic as quickly as they do a liquid electrolyte. The plastic also physically prevents the electrodes from forming the dendrites that can short out the battery. Lithium metal can be used for the negative electrode, which could potentially double the battery's energy density.
Professor Zimmerman's work has been done mostly in stealth. The NOVA special was reportedly the first television interview he had done on his work. He has formed a company, Ionic Materials, and recently raised $65 million to commercialize this solid-state battery. (Jump to the 30:40 mark in the video to see the portion on Professor Zimmerman's work).
- I have seen videos of battery insulation that can prevent cell-to-cell ignition. Here is a YouTube video demonstrating this:
- In Europe this past week, firefighters submerged an entire Model S into a pool of water to prevent secondary ignitions. See: Tesla vehicle caught on fire while plugged in at Supercharger station - Electrek
Posting a photo like that, without explanation, is irresponsible and shows poor judgement. Then you compounded your error by pretending the explanation is “top secret”. Maybe you thought that was amusing. It was not.
Thank you for clarifying.
