ValueAnalyst
Closed
He didn't say less energy; he said less CO2. Gigafactory uses renewable energy. The study assumes average mix of energy sources.
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He didn't say less energy; he said less CO2. Gigafactory uses renewable energy. The study assumes average mix of energy sources.
IMO- they have no plan to even monetize this- It's core AI tech; Much less manufacture any product level outcome. I think they are more inclined to manufacture an AI chip for internal product use. This R&D will instruct those and other efforts. The only 'competing' element I see here is for brain-power resource. For me, this is an acknowledgment of EMs technology leadership. Apple is chasing the technology here, not leading it, even as applied to Mobile-Auto IMO. It's wise of Apple to do so and a good move by Cook and team to focus on the technology via the application of it (as Jobs' DNA prescribed), rather than front end it with product development--
disclosure (hold Apple core (small relative) - and long time Apple relationship- financial and otherwise)
There are implied parts of a contract and fine print parts of a contract. People in the valley have a reputation for selling an implied contract and delivering a contract with a lot of fine print (not "what one world normally expect" parts).
Some of these people work for Elon. They do not recognize that this behavior releases all implied obligations to follow through with the contract, that are usually normal behaviors in the rest of the country. It is a cultural misunderstanding. Tesla is saying that they want to renegotiate the spirit of the contract, and that they understood your deposit as an interest free micro loan. "Do not think that there is any implied obligation to purchase. We are changing the terms away from reasonable and customary, as the power position has changed."
I don't know why they would want to want to change 400,000 orders into $400,000,000 in interest free micro loans, with a 2 year term. Some people are not very smart when it comes to cultural understanding.
DurandalAI
Member
Remember when IBM did R&D on bunches of products that may or may not actually pay off in time? Same with Bell Labs? R&D on projects that may not necessarily go anywhere is vital to getting those random AHA! moments that result in new products or allowing you to be on the forefront of a trend. Google's X Labs are very similar to these R&D labs of the past, and I'm a firm believer that any company that doesn't sufficiently invest in R&D will fail sooner than if they had invested in R&D.
Back to the topic at hand, yes, it's very important that Apple be investing in AI, even if they don't know what they're going to do with it. I think its use will be beneficial at the minimum from a data analytics standpoint, at which time its other uses will become obvious.
Reciprocity
Active Member
You both are right. Tesla only controls how energy is consumed at the Gigafactory, Superchargers and at Fremont, they do not control how energy is used at the smelter for the aluminum and at the factory that makes the seats or steering column, etc.. So cost is a proxy for CO2. But an ICEv obviously shares many similar types of components so depending on how they where manufactured would be comparable. In terms of the batteries, since they are raw materials in and batteries and drive trains out, Tesla does control more of the supply chain and how its made, but the lithium is still refined somewhere and the aluminum is still smelted somewhere. Unless those facilities are running on renewables, then they create CO2. The amount, who knows. I have not read the article and dont really care as one company can only do so much by themselves.
Of course fuel has to be refined and that is very energy intensive itself, so it should be added to the CO2 cost of the fuel. It is a very complex problem, so I like the way Tesla has attacked it. Build the car and semi because transport consumes roughly 1/3 of all the energy produced, then build the supply with solar and batteries which can help with the first 1/3 and and additional 1/3 for electricity demand for homes and businesses. The last 1/3 is a bit harder, which is mostly used to heat our homes and water heaters that are gas based. This is a bit harder to tackle but as people migrate to Solar they tend to want to run as much stuff from solar as possible so switch some of that Nat gas or fuel oil to electric water heaters and heat pumps. As solar becomes more prevalent and costs come down then it makes sense to switch to more efficient electric solutions as your old gas and fuel oil based systems fail. This last 3rd will probably take a very long time, but at least nat gas is cleaner then Coal.
Krugerrand
Meow
And the other colors are metallic/multi-coat. The black is not.
The Governor of Michigan all but confirmed that the mysterious Durand plant is an Apple/Foxconn car facility.
“They may have other things they’re working on that may be better suited to industries we’re strong on here,” Snyder said.
As Google has proven (by their lack of commercialization success) you can't work on autonomous systems without a product.
And, if you're making an autonomous system (and you're not a moron), you're making a robotaxi.
And, if you're making a robotaxi, then you're making an EV.
And, if you're making an EV, then you're making it yourself because the rest of Big Auto still doesn't get it.
Hence -- I conclude that Apple is working on autonomous systems for their own fleet of EV robotaxis and will at some point announce a Michigan factory.
It seems really obvious. What am I missing?
Also, I think it's Elon's sense of humor. Let's call it the Ford effect, besides, they need the money for Giga factories.
Edit: multicoat the best answer. I just had some fun.
ValueAnalyst
Closed
I agree with you that it seems really obvious. Apple TV set also seemed obvious a few years ago... Apple VR sets also seemed obvious at one point... Apple has lots of projects going on at the same time, and I try not to read much into rumors or circumstantial evidence with that company. They frequently change their mind. I'll wait and see what they announce.
Reciprocity
Active Member
Agree that Autonomous EV is the only useful autonomous car. Not sure Apple will build a car, they could build everything but the car and license the components including drive trains and batteries. There is a huge gap in terms of those who can build the tech vs who can build the rest of the car. The tech being Batteries, BMS, Inverters, Processing power, UI/Infotainment systems and to a lesser extent the motors, though they get more technological as they get more efficient. There are a lot of car companies that could manufacture the car part if someone would supply them an inexpensive, bolt on drive train with all the tech components that can be integrated into the cars. The industry is already setup to work with suppliers for almost everything in the car.
I have no idea whats being built in Durand. I only doubt Foxconn because they just announced a 10B facility in Wisconsin for screens. Does that mean they are not also going to partner with Apple in Michigan where Apple supplies most of the funding? Only time will tell. But building a solution for ICEv has about a 5 year life span of use, then it will be fully displaced by Autonomous EVs so if it takes 5 years to build a fully autonomous ICEv, its pointless. Now the technology could always be used on an EV, but I wouldnt invest a nickle in any ICE technology.
Interesting read on SpaceX ULA competition out today by Technica- while waiting ER
How America’s two greatest rocket companies battled from the beginning
How America’s two greatest rocket companies battled from the beginning
The article is titled "Michigan loses out to Wisconsin on Foxconn" and has a different title to the link than in your post -- Michigan loses out to Wisconsin on Foxconn
I think it is a stretch to say this article suggests that the Durand facitlity is a Foxconn/Apple EV plant. The article doesn't mention Durand at all -- it mentions two other potential sites in Michigan (Romulus (near Detroit Metro Airport) and Lyon Township (in Oakland County near Detroit). Foxconn could have many interests related to electronics in the automotive industry, not necessarily building EVs.
Also, Apple has supposedly abandoned the BEV part of its project and is focusing on autonomy. While that could be a headfake or Foxconn could be taking the lead on the BEV with Apple taking the lead on controls/autonomy, IMO there is nothing in this article that suggests that the Durand site is an Apple/Foxconn BEV plant. To be clear, I am not ruling out that Durand is an Apple/Foxconn EV facility, I just don't think this article says or suggests that.
re: FoxConn- WI and other facilities
Trump claims chair of Foxconn said 'off the record' it may triple its US investment to $30 billion
"<
President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he was told "off the record" by Foxconn chairman Terry Gou that the company plans to spend $30 billion on a new U.S. plant — which would be three times the amount of money the company has previously pledged.
Trump's comments came a press conference during small business event at the White House.
"He told me off the record he may go [to] $30 billion – $30 billion – think of this," Trump said Tuesday. "But he told me that off the record, so I promised I wouldn't tell anybody."
Chinese company Foxconn said last week it would to spend $10 billion on a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in Wisconsin, and create 3,000 jobs in the process. Another, larger facility is also under negotiation.
>"
guess that makes it on the record- what a dweeb---
Trump claims chair of Foxconn said 'off the record' it may triple its US investment to $30 billion
"<
President Donald Trump said Tuesday that he was told "off the record" by Foxconn chairman Terry Gou that the company plans to spend $30 billion on a new U.S. plant — which would be three times the amount of money the company has previously pledged.
Trump's comments came a press conference during small business event at the White House.
"He told me off the record he may go [to] $30 billion – $30 billion – think of this," Trump said Tuesday. "But he told me that off the record, so I promised I wouldn't tell anybody."
Chinese company Foxconn said last week it would to spend $10 billion on a state-of-the-art manufacturing facility in Wisconsin, and create 3,000 jobs in the process. Another, larger facility is also under negotiation.
>"
guess that makes it on the record- what a dweeb---
You're right, Durand is not specifically mentioned. And, it might not even be Foxconn as a partner. But Rick Snyder was clear that Apple was working on something that was a strongsuit of MIchigan and that there would be additional announcements.
An autonomous EV is the only option and everyone knows that once the technology is there robotaxis will displace not only regular taxis and Uber, but begin eating into car ownership itself. It'll be a trillion dollar industry. Apple is perfectly suited to provide content inside the car, and, if they're working on "autonomous systems" with a forthcoming announcement in Michigan ... then I think it's highly probably they're making a robotaxi play, regardless of their public posturing. It's beneficial for them to stay in stealth mode for as long as possible.
(Anyway, sorry for the Apple diversion. Back to regularly scheduled programming)
Waiting4M3
Active Member
what would you expect to hear about the M3 ramp tonight? the non-sandbagged target? I don't expect anything new on the M3 tonight. I'm looking for MS/X margin and guidance, and what they say about Kurt Kelty leaving, update on semi, solar roof, and TE revenue and guidance
Waiting4M3
Active Member
because you always throw out the baby with the bathwater 1st
Reciprocity
Active Member
If its true that Michigan lost out to Wisconsin then I think this might actually be an Apple TV and not and Apple EV. Meaning a full TV with everything you would ever want in your living room. Foxconn has already stated it will be making screens in the factory in Michigan.
I think it's a fool trying to emulate a genius -- remember Elon's Master Plan I: "Don't tell anyone!"
Result predictable.
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