IRS form 8911 - ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLE REFUELING PROPERTY CREDIT 2015

ArtInCT · Feb 10, 2016

Gang:

I just ran across this. If you GOGGLE search "IRS FORM 8911" there is a Federal Tax Form that allows you to file for a tax credit on expenses you may have incurred building out your FY 2015 charging infrastructure for your Model S, X or Roadster.

I believe here, we are talking documented expenses to build your charging station, either personal or business.

I am pretty sure these expenses DO NOT include the electricity you have used but rather electrician fees, hardware & wire costs, HPWC, outlets, conduit and other fees associated with building your 2015 charging system for your BEV.

I am not a tax expert, but non the less, this is worth looking into if it applies to your situation.

Cheers,
Art

Rockster · Feb 10, 2016

I'm not a tax person, either, but I think it's impossible to claim this credit in the same year you claim the $7500 ev credit. At least that's how it appeared to be in 2013. If I'm incorrect (or if this is no longer true) I hope someone chimes in because it's a great benefit to those purchasing an EV.

ArtInCT · Feb 10, 2016

That is an interesting point... certainly your tax specialist needs to keep on their toes with this one.
In my case, I built out my infrastructure for charging at the end of 2015, the S will arrive soon in 2016! So different tax years for me.

cpa · Feb 10, 2016

I am only commenting on personal use of the Tesla and personal installation of EVSE at one's primary residence. And the credit is allowed only for a taxpayer's primary residence as defined in IRC Section 121. We do not get the credit at our vacation home or at the in-law's.

The $7,500 credit is allowed against the dread alternative minimum tax. Any AMT limitation does not come into play. However, the EVSE credit claimed on form 8911 is not allowed to reduce AMT. Period.

Therefore, unless your taxable income is north of about $600,000+ (depending on filing status, state of residence, etc.) most of us will not be able to claim both credits in the same tax year. And if you routinely are subject to the AMT, you likely will not get this credit regardless of when you purchased your vehicle.

Caveat: I researched this as of 2014. The legislation that extended this provision may have tweaked the rules. I have not brushed up for the 2015 tax year on this matter as yet.

Finally, treatment for business purposes is a whole different ballgame, and this comment does not purport to address the business treatment.

Shaggy · Feb 16, 2016

I had no issues getting this for the charger (with professional install) and the $4007 for the Ford in the same year. Since they are separate items, I cannot imagine why it'd matter. As always consult a tax accountant as I ain't one. I plan to use the remainder of the $1000 credit when I upgrade the service to support a Model S next year along with a full credit for the car.

Cyclone · Feb 16, 2016

Rockster said:
I'm not a tax person, either, but I think it's impossible to claim this credit in the same year you claim the $7500 ev credit. At least that's how it appeared to be in 2013. If I'm incorrect (or if this is no longer true) I hope someone chimes in because it's a great benefit to those purchasing an EV.

Not a problem for my CPO purchase and November 2015 wiring to support charging at home!

Max* · Feb 17, 2016

cpa said:
I am only commenting on personal use of the Tesla and personal installation of EVSE at one's primary residence. And the credit is allowed only for a taxpayer's primary residence as defined in IRC Section 121. We do not get the credit at our vacation home or at the in-law's.

The $7,500 credit is allowed against the dread alternative minimum tax. Any AMT limitation does not come into play. However, the EVSE credit claimed on form 8911 is not allowed to reduce AMT. Period.

Therefore, unless your taxable income is north of about $600,000+ (depending on filing status, state of residence, etc.) most of us will not be able to claim both credits in the same tax year. And if you routinely are subject to the AMT, you likely will not get this credit regardless of when you purchased your vehicle.

Caveat: I researched this as of 2014. The legislation that extended this provision may have tweaked the rules. I have not brushed up for the 2015 tax year on this matter as yet.

Finally, treatment for business purposes is a whole different ballgame, and this comment does not purport to address the business treatment.

I couldn't understand why I could claim the $7,500, but not my outlet install. Something about the AMT, so after a lot of googling, I found the same thing for 2015.

<--- not.a.cpa

rnelsonee · Mar 17, 2016

While I'm not a CPA, and will admit I don't feel like going through the entire AMT form now, looking at the Form 8911 (PDF warning) (used for determining the credit), it looks like if you're not in danger of hitting the AMT (8911 asks to compute your "Tentative Minimum Tax") you should be good to get credit. And if the $7500 screws it up (I trust the CPA's post) that's okay because very few Model 3 owners are getting the $7500 tax credit in 2016, unless we get some very good news on March 31st!

SureValla · Mar 17, 2016

cpa said:
Therefore, unless your taxable income is north of about $600,000+ (depending on filing status, state of residence, etc.) most of us will not be able to claim both credits in the same tax year.

would you mind sharing how you calculated the $600,000 dollar figure?

cpa · Mar 17, 2016

SureValla said:
would you mind sharing how you calculated the $600,000 dollar figure?

Thirty-five years of preparing income tax returns.

SureValla · Mar 17, 2016

cpa said:
Thirty-five years of preparing income tax returns.

can you share the math? Was hoping to see some equations.

gregd · Sep 27, 2016

Hi folks, reviving this thread since I haven't found an answer to part of the original question...

We've discussed and understood the credits (or lack thereof) for buying a new EV (the car itself). What's not so clear is what is covered by form 8911 as far as the EV Charging stuff. Reading the form, it looks pretty clear that the EVSE itself (the box on the wall) is covered. But the major part of the cost can be (for me, at least) getting power to that EVSE. I will probably need to upgrade the main panel on the house, in addition to running some beefy wire across to the garage.

Is that panel upgrade and the new wiring eligible for the credit, in addition to the EVSE box on the wall?

Cyclone · Sep 27, 2016

gregd said:
Hi folks, reviving this thread since I haven't found an answer to part of the original question...

We've discussed and understood the credits (or lack thereof) for buying a new EV (the car itself). What's not so clear is what is covered by form 8911 as far as the EV Charging stuff. Reading the form, it looks pretty clear that the EVSE itself (the box on the wall) is covered. But the major part of the cost can be (for me, at least) getting power to that EVSE. I will probably need to upgrade the main panel on the house, in addition to running some beefy wire across to the garage.

Is that panel upgrade and the new wiring eligible for the credit, in addition to the EVSE box on the wall?

Assuming they are done together, yes. If you however upgrade the panel in February and install the EVSE in November, you might have trouble justifying it if you get audited.

gregd · Sep 27, 2016

Cyclone said:
Assuming they are done together, yes. If you however upgrade the panel in February and install the EVSE in November, you might have trouble justifying it if you get audited.

Got it. Thanks!

RedModel3 · Oct 3, 2016

I'm currently about to upgrade my wiring for a Chevy Volt (until the M3 comes) and the electrician and I are both going to be doing research into this. It looks like the credit DOES cover installation costs. I can't speak to the level of income that disqualifies you from getting it, but I don't come close to the AMT, and my Volt is used, so I'm not going for both credits in the same year. I'll post more info as I find out.

MorrisonHiker · Oct 3, 2016

RedModel3 said:
I'm currently about to upgrade my wiring for a Chevy Volt (until the M3 comes) and the electrician and I are both going to be doing research into this. It looks like the credit DOES cover installation costs. I can't speak to the level of income that disqualifies you from getting it, but I don't come close to the AMT, and my Volt is used, so I'm not going for both credits in the same year. I'll post more info as I find out.

Installation fees are covered but any permitting and inspection fees are not covered.

Duma · Oct 6, 2016

FWIW, @cpa was spot on for my case. I was able to get the $7.5K EV credit but my tax account said the 8511 for the charger installation was not allowed due to AMT rules. This was on my 2015 taxes.

Don't let this discourage you from exploring the primary residence charger installation, but be aware of the AMT gotcha.

Gig103 · Nov 5, 2016

cpa said:
I am only commenting on personal use of the Tesla and personal installation of EVSE at one's primary residence. And the credit is allowed only for a taxpayer's primary residence as defined in IRC Section 121. We do not get the credit at our vacation home or at the in-law's.

The $7,500 credit is allowed against the dread alternative minimum tax. Any AMT limitation does not come into play. However, the EVSE credit claimed on form 8911 is not allowed to reduce AMT. Period.

Therefore, unless your taxable income is north of about $600,000+ (depending on filing status, state of residence, etc.) most of us will not be able to claim both credits in the same tax year. And if you routinely are subject to the AMT, you likely will not get this credit regardless of when you purchased your vehicle.

Caveat: I researched this as of 2014. The legislation that extended this provision may have tweaked the rules. I have not brushed up for the 2015 tax year on this matter as yet.

Finally, treatment for business purposes is a whole different ballgame, and this comment does not purport to address the business treatment.

I don't understand how you come to the "north of $600,000" value. I'm not a CPA, but if installing a charging station costs you $3000, that's a $900 tax credit, plus $7500 for the car = $10,400. If a married household has an $90,000 joint income and takes the standard deduction of $12,600, that leaves an income of $77,400 and thus tax due of $10,944. It is far from a pittance, but it is also 1/6 of what you are suggesting.

I will obviously be checking with my tax preparer in February but I'm trying to get an early handle on it all.

Max* · Nov 7, 2016

Gig103 said:
I don't understand how you come to the "north of $600,000" value. I'm not a CPA, but if installing a charging station costs you $3000, that's a $900 tax credit, plus $7500 for the car = $10,400. If a married household has an $90,000 joint income and takes the standard deduction of $12,600, that leaves an income of $77,400 and thus tax due of $10,944. It is far from a pittance, but it is also 1/6 of what you are suggesting.

I will obviously be checking with my tax preparer in February but I'm trying to get an early handle on it all.

Except it doesn't work that way. I tried claiming both in the same tax year, and was not able to.

It was something due to the minimum tax (not AMT, but similar calculation done in the background). And my wife and I make somewhere between the two sets of numbers you posts (north of "$90k joint income", but south of the $600k that CPA estimated is needed to claim both).

Boatguy · Nov 7, 2016

As I read the instructions, this credit would also apply to installation of dual chargers since they are:

"To recharge an electric vehicle, but only if the recharging property is located at the point where the vehicle is recharged."

Dual chargers are most definitely located at the point where the vehicle is recharged and mandatory for using the full capability of the HPWC.

IRS form 8911 - ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLE REFUELING PROPERTY CREDIT 2015

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