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Thread: The New RAV4 EV

  1. #841
    Member Bearman's Avatar
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    Thanks for posting any experiences on the rav4-ev, there isn't much from owners out there what i can find. Pictures would be nice too

  2. #842
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lloyd View Post
    I believe that the rav got the 9.6 kw designation due to the recommended EVSE pairing with Leutron which has a maximum output of 9.6 kw. I use a clipper creek ts-70 converted to J1772, and see a full40 amps rate.
    It's exactly the same charger, of course, in the Model S and Rav4 (and presumably in the Superchargers... 9 of them !!!).

    I have measured up to 42 amps at 240 volts from this charger with an adequately rated EVSE. The charger is rated up to 277 volts, whereby at 40 amps, it would be a 11kW charger!!! It will not pull more than 40-42 amps even if hooked up to a higher amp rated EVSE.

    Most public charging stations in the USA/Canada only put out 30 amps

    So, here's some typical examples:

    ----------- Japan --- USA/Canada - The World --- USA/Canada ------ USA/Canada
    Amps --- 200 volts --- 208 volts --- 230 volts ------- 240volts ------- 277 volts

    16 -------- 3.2kW -------- 3.3kW ------ 3.7kW ---------- 3.8kW -------- 4.4kW
    30 ---------6.0kW -------- 6.2kW ------ 6.9 kW --------- 7.2kW -------- 8.3kW
    40 -------- 8.0kW -------- 8.3kW ------ 9.2kW ---------- 9.6kW -------- 11kW

    Obviously, the charger will output some value below those stated above, at about 85-90%. So, a typical LEAF drawing 16 amps at your house 240 volts will put 3.3kW into the battery, and draw 3.8kW from the wall.

    The Rav4 EV will draw 9.6kW from the wall at your house (40 * 240 = 9600), but at 87.5% efficiency, that is 8.4kW into your battery. At a public charger, with typical commercial 208v * 30a = 6240 watts (6.24kW), at the same efficiency will put 5.46kW in the battery.

    At 65mph on dry, level, no wind, no HVAC, sea level elevation, windows up, the Rav4 will consume 3.4 miles per kWh, therefore the charging speed is 3.4 * 8.4 = 28.56 miles per hour charging at home and 18.56 miles per hour charging at public spots.

    To answer your original question about the 10kW "rating", 250 volts * 40 amps = 10kW.
    Last edited by TonyWilliams; 2013-02-16 at 12:01 PM.

  3. #843
    Model S: VIN P 3552 gg_got_a_tesla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommolog View Post
    Thanks Lloyd. So even on an EVSE like the TS-70 that can supply up to 70amps the RAV4 will only pull 40amps which is 9.6kW then, interesting. So would you know if the Model S limit it's draw to 9.6kW also if you were charging it from a 70amp supply?
    Yes, if the Model S has only the standard single charger. If you get the optional twin chargers onboard, you can draw upto 20kW with the Model S.
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  4. #844
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    Quote Originally Posted by gg_got_a_tesla View Post
    Yes, if the Model S has only the standard single charger. If you get the optional twin chargers onboard, you can draw upto 20kW with the Model S.
    And in the context of full understanding, if the HPC is in you house in the USA/Canada on 240 volts, it will be 240 volts * 80 amps = 19.2kW, instead of 20kW.

    Then, at 87.5% charger efficiency, that's 16.8kW into the battery.

    Obviously, my 87.5% figure is a guess, and a composite of what the charger might do over a broad range of temperatures. At low temperatures, the battery heater must consume power, and if it's hot, the air conditioner would consume power, and if the battery is cold, it will charge significantly slower, etc. Lower amp / volt EVSE's will cause slightly more inefficient charging do to longer times charging the battery, hence longer times for coolant pumps to run, etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bearman View Post
    Thanks for posting any experiences on the rav4-ev, there isn't much from owners out there what i can find. Pictures would be nice too
    Www.myrav4ev.com/forum
    Last edited by TonyWilliams; 2013-02-16 at 12:17 PM.

  5. #845
    Member Bearman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyWilliams View Post
    Thanks Tony!

  6. #846
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    Thanks Tony. I was going to PM you directly and ask(because I knew you'd know!) but I figured it would be better to post in case anyone else was wondering. I knew full well you would chime in and set the record straight

    I was just curious why Tesla indicates they have a 10kW charger standard and Toyota refers to it as a 9.6kW onboard charger.
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  7. #847
    Burrito Founder brianman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyWilliams View Post
    It's exactly the same charger, of course, in the Model S and Rav4
    Has this been officially confirmed, or is this conjecture?
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  8. #848
    S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13 jerry33's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianman View Post
    Has this been officially confirmed, or is this conjecture?
    I think it's by comparing the photos. I don't think you'll ever get an official answer from either company.
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  9. #849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bearman View Post
    Thanks for posting any experiences on the rav4-ev, there isn't much from owners out there what i can find. Pictures would be nice too
    Besides some of the earlier links and Tony's posts, My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread has plenty of chatter.

    Maybe start around My Nissan Leaf Forum View topic - Official Toyota RAV4 EV Thread, which begins w/Tony first renting a Rav4 EV before he bought one.

  10. #850
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    Quote Originally Posted by brianman View Post
    Has this been officially confirmed, or is this conjecture?
    The Tesla 10kW charger on the Rav4:



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by tommolog View Post
    Thanks Tony. I was going to PM you directly and ask(because I knew you'd know!) but I figured it would be better to post in case anyone else was wondering. I knew full well you would chime in and set the record straight

    I was just curious why Tesla indicates they have a 10kW charger standard and Toyota refers to it as a 9.6kW onboard charger.
    Well, the car is only officially sold where there is 208 and 240 volts (California) for public and residential use. So, since the charger is 40 amps so that it can pull 80% continuous on a 50 amp breaker, and they are trying to sell Leviton 40 amp EVSE's, I am guessing all roads lead to 40 * 240 = 9.6kW.

    Frankly, ALL these manufacturers spewing usually wrong kW rates would be wise to just list amps. I can see them getting sued over that some day (see my chart a few posts up).

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