Road taxes instead of gas taxes?

TEG · Aug 4, 2008

FHWA director: U.S. transportation system broken

edit: link above no longer works... try this:
http://aftermarketsuppliers.org/publications/articledetail.php?articleId=11966
and this:
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...1-High-Gas-Prices-Could-Lead-to-Higher-Taxes/

Brent · Aug 7, 2008

If EVs gain a significant role in transportation, I'd think that toll roads would have to be a bigger part of the mix. The private highway, 91 Express Lanes, built here in SoCal, may well turn out to be a case study in their construction and use. Having private industry build highways could be interesting...and possibly messy, too. Then again, Tokyo's private subway system works quite well, so maybe there's hope.

TEG said:
FHWA director: U.S. transportation system broken

vfx · Mar 11, 2009

This should be interesting

Netherlands plans massive road-pricing scheme| TerraPass: Fight global warming, reduce your carbon footprint

AntronX · Mar 11, 2009

TEG said:
FHWA director: U.S. transportation system broken

"This article is no longer available online for free"

TEG · Mar 11, 2009

AASA Events—Article Detail
High Gas Prices Could Lead to Higher Taxes - U.S. News Rankings and Reviews
FHWA director: U.S. transportation system broken

vfx · Apr 20, 2009

Another Taxes question.

Driving my car to contract jobs I dutifully log all my miles into a book. I recently added up all the miles for a 08 tax write off.

Is the tax written off for gasoline usage, repairs, wear on the car, all decided by percentages of actual work miles driven?

What do those with an electric car do? Do they have to eliminate the gas tax mileage for E miles driven?

Signed,

Confused in LA

EVnut · Apr 20, 2009

vfx said:
What do those with an electric car do? Do they have to eliminate the gas tax mileage for E miles driven?

Have to? Heck no. I surely never have. I just take the standard mileage rate even though I take the EV when I need a car. What if I drove a Hummer? Or a Prius? Hmmm. The question is... why can't I take that same credit when I ride my bicycle to job sites?

TEG · Apr 21, 2009

Bill Ford: Gas tax, please. - Green Wombat
Why Bill Ford wants a gas tax

daniel · May 11, 2009

Replying to the thread title "Road taxes instead of gas taxes?" I would advocate both. With gasoline being a limited and rapidly-diminishing resource, I advocate gas taxes to help conserve petroleum reserves, since petroleum is vital in so many industries, not merely transportation, and is probably more easily replaced in transportation than it is in such industries as pharmaceuticals.

However, we need funding for road maintenance and construction, and as gas runs out and people are forced to adopt other means of transportation, such as electric, revenues from gas taxes will diminish. Thus, while we must tax gas to preserve petroleum, we should not rely on gas tax revenues for something as critical as roads. We therefore need a separate road tax based on road usage. Some sort of tax that takes into account miles driven and the weight of the vehicle, thus representing wear and tear on the roads and occupation of available road space.

I've been driving an electric Zap Xebra for about two years now, putting more miles on the Xebra than on the stinker. And I'm hoping to be driving a freeway-capable conversion car soon. I would have no objection to paying my fair share of the road tax.

SByer · May 11, 2009

How about we just stop subsidizing oil first?

daniel · May 12, 2009

SByer said:
How about we just stop subsidizing oil first?

That's a good idea, too. But I'd still like to see a hefty tax on it as well. Petroleum is just too valuable to burn.

doug · Sep 14, 2009

Uncle Sam Eyes Vehicle Tracking Tax | The Truth About Cars

vfx · Sep 15, 2012

This is not theory. We’ve seen it happen. In 2008, when the price of gas shot abruptly past $4 a gallon, Americans cut back sharply on their driving. Total miles driven on American highways declined for the first time since 1980 and gas use fell more than 4 percent. General Motors ditched the Hummer, and gas-guzzling pickups were briefly dislodged from the perch they had occupied since 1992 as the nation’s most popular light vehicle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/business/fuel-efficiency-standards-have-costs-of-their-own.html?_r=1

jerry33 · Sep 16, 2012

The thing is that cars and light trucks (even Hummers) do zero damage to the roads (other than taking out a few lamp/utility posts, signs, and guard rails and wearing out the road markings). The majority of road damage is caused by heavy trucks and frost heaving. The heavy trucks don't pay anywhere near their share of the damage they cause so basically light vehicle taxes subsidize the trucking industry (which is why rail doesn't compete in many cases).

Basically, this is another excuse for a tax grab.

vfx · Sep 16, 2012

jerry33 said:
The thing is that cars and light trucks (even Hummers) do zero damage to the roads ....

Ridiculous assertion.

Take a 2 mile piece of road.

On the first half, drive 1 mile, turn around and drive back in a Smart Car. Repeat 10,000 times.

At the same time do the same thing on the 2nd mile with a Hummer.

At the end which road will have more "zero damage"?

ckessel · Sep 16, 2012

vfx said:
Ridiculous assertion.

Take a 2 mile piece of road.

On the first half, drive 1 mile, turn around and drive back in a Smart Car. Repeat 10,000 times.

At the same time do the same thing on the 2nd mile with a Hummer.

At the end which road will have more "zero damage"?

Have you done this test? Otherwise, you're just going with gut feel which is a terrible measurement.

It's all about tolerances. I can rest my 2 ton car on my concrete driveway outside thousands of times with no impact. Park one tank that weighs 10s of tons and it'll crack instantly.

vfx · Sep 16, 2012

ckessel said:
Have you done this test? .

Yes.

Yes I have.

ckessel · Sep 16, 2012

Here's a quote related to actual studies that have been done.

According to a series of experiments carried out in the late 1950s, called the AASHO Road Test, it was empirically determined that the effective damage done to the road is roughly proportional to the Fourth power of axle weight.[32] A typical tractor-trailer weighing 80,000 pounds (36.287 t) with 8,000 pounds (3.629 t) on the steer axle and 36,000 pounds (16.329 t) on both of the tandem axle groups is expected to do 7,800 times more damage than a passenger vehicle with 2,000 pounds (0.907 t) on each axle.

jerry33 · Sep 16, 2012

And it's far worse than that if the tires on the duals are not of equal pressure (there is a flat for example, or one of the tires has a slow leak) or the truck is overloaded.

- - - Updated - - -

vfx said:
Ridiculous assertion.

Take a 2 mile piece of road.

On the first half, drive 1 mile, turn around and drive back in a Smart Car. Repeat 10,000 times.

At the same time do the same thing on the 2nd mile with a Hummer.

At the end which road will have more "zero damage"?

Because the road was built to take a heavy truck, even if infrequently in the case of city streets, the difference between the Smart car and the Hummer is inconsequential.

vfx · Sep 16, 2012

jerry33 said:
Because the road was built to take a heavy truck, even if infrequently....

Not the road in my example.

Road taxes instead of gas taxes?

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