Typical Supercharging rate?

anticitizen13.7 said:

I saw on the Tesla Motors website that the Supercharger is capable of adding up to 150 miles of charge to a compatible Model S in 30 minutes. If that is the max, what is the typical rate of charge?

I ask this because I know that Lithium Ion batteries usually charge quickly, but the charge rate slows down as the battery becomes more "full".

If I have 50 miles of range left in a Model S, how much range can I expect will be added by the Supercharger in 30 minutes? How does having 100, 150, 200 miles left affect this?

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AFAIK, 50 or 100 would allow the battery to add about 150 in that time. The others proportionately less. Probably about 50% of the way to "full".

This thread:
900 mile Supercharger road trip

Has some good real world Supercharging #'s. The 150 miles in 30 minutes appears to be a best case scenario, if you arrive with zero miles left.

For another real-world, we went to the Gilroy super charger today while picking up some gifts at the Disney store. We left the car with 101 miles indicated, and after 44 minutes of shopping, we had 241 (max normal charge). No idea when it actually finished. This is my fourth time charging here, and it really does seem to add the miles much faster the less charge you have.

We used the Gilroy Supercharger on 12/22 in pouring rain, arriving with 170miles left (mostly full) just wanting to experience how well it worked. Upon plugging in, it delivered 129A, and within 20 minutes had tapered to 89A. We left, returning a day later with 600 additional miles on the car, using it again, this time plugging in with 15 miles left to emply. Again, during pouring downpour, the delivered current was 246 amps, added miles steadily increasing as we watched. In about 20 minutes, we'd added 100+ miles and left for home.

Rain doesn't affect anything, except my driving speed! :wink:

I posted this in the East Coast Supercharger thread and then remember this one...apologies for the cross post:

"1st charge today at the DE stop.

I pulled in with ~150 miles rated range and added ~65 miles in 30 minutes. The charge started pulling at 122A but tapered down to 74A as the SOC increased.

This stop is going to come in handy."

I think it's okay that the rate slows down as the SOC gets full. The goal would be to get you to a target SOC of x% in 30 minutes, regardless of whether you arrived with 50, 100, 150, or 200 miles. You are virtually "topping off" in 30 minutes regardless of starting SOC. The goal, after all, is to create a road trip capability.

This may cause consternation for those who would like to use SC's as "free power" machines -- e.g., a quick stop on the way home from work and top up from 200 to 240 miles in 5 minutes while grabbing a coffee -- but that's not what they were designed for.

I used Tejon Ranch last night for the first time. Pulled in with ~60 miles, only one there. I added 100 miles in the first 20 minutes! Started at 245 amps and ramped back to 100 amps by the time I was 80% full. Guess time to 80% was about 45 to 50 minutes. Great experience.

FlasherZ said:

I think it's okay that the rate slows down as the SOC gets full.

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As long as it will get you to the next charger, that is true. I don't want to wait an extra 2 hours to get the 6 miles I need to (probably) get there, right?

aviators99 said:

As long as it will get you to the next charger, that is true. I don't want to wait an extra 2 hours to get the 6 miles I need to (probably) get there, right?

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Ron,

You're a smart guy and I know you value your time. I seriously doubt you would selfishly tie up a Supercharger for an extra two hours just to get an additional 6 miles. :wink:

An owner posted his Supercharging times on the official Tesla Motors forums. After reaching a state of charge of 74% the average charging rate to get to 88% was 58 miles rated range per hour, or about the rate of a High Power Wall Connector.

Larry

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FlasherZ said:

I think it's okay that the rate slows down as the SOC gets full. The goal would be to get you to a target SOC of x% in 30 minutes, regardless of whether you arrived with 50, 100, 150, or 200 miles. You are virtually "topping off" in 30 minutes regardless of starting SOC. The goal, after all, is to create a road trip capability.

This may cause consternation for those who would like to use SC's as "free power" machines -- e.g., a quick stop on the way home from work and top up from 200 to 240 miles in 5 minutes while grabbing a coffee -- but that's not what they were designed for.

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Exactly!

Although I believe the Superchargers continue to charge at a HPWC rate even at relatively high SoCs, I wouldn't mind seeing them tapper off more if that helped regulate the use of the Superchargers. When something is free people frequently exhibit very stupid behavior.

Larry

Larry Chanin said:

Ron,

You're a smart guy and I know you value your time. I seriously doubt you would selfishly tie up a Supercharger for an extra two hours just to get an additional 6 miles. :wink:

An owner posted his Supercharging times on the official Tesla Motors forums. After reaching a state of charge of 74% the average charging rate to get to 88% was 58 miles rated range per hour, or about the rate of a High Power Wall Connector.

Larry

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I guess it depends how far the next charger or my destination is. I might need those 6 miles, so I'm not sure what else I would do, especially if I had a 60kWh pack. If the Superchargers are spaced at 200 miles apart and I have a S60, I'm going to need every electron, no?

aviators99 said:

I guess it depends how far the next charger or my destination is. I might need those 6 miles, so I'm not sure what else I would do, especially if I had a 60kWh pack. If the Superchargers are spaced at 200 miles apart and I have a S60, I'm going to need every electron, no?

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If I had to wait two hours to to gain 6 miles of range I would stop occupying the Supercharger space and find another outlet, even a 120volt outlet.

Larry

This is why Tesla needs to add 80A UMCs at these locations so people can move off the Supercharger and top off if they have time. How you keep someone local from using that as their primary power source if they were that motivated is a different problem of course. I don't think many people will do that though.

anticitizen13.7 said:

I saw on the Tesla Motors website that the Supercharger is capable of adding up to 150 miles of charge to a compatible Model S in 30 minutes. If that is the max, what is the typical rate of charge?

I ask this because I know that Lithium Ion batteries usually charge quickly, but the charge rate slows down as the battery becomes more "full".

If I have 50 miles of range left in a Model S, how much range can I expect will be added by the Supercharger in 30 minutes? How does having 100, 150, 200 miles left affect this?

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The attached chart is based on data that I extracted from a Model S's owner log of Supercharging data that he collected during a journey to multiple Superchargers. This information was posted on the official Tesla Motors forum, but please don't ask me to find it, its impossible to find anything there.

Larry

aviators99 said:

I guess it depends how far the next charger or my destination is. I might need those 6 miles, so I'm not sure what else I would do, especially if I had a 60kWh pack. If the Superchargers are spaced at 200 miles apart and I have a S60, I'm going to need every electron, no?

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The superchargers along the San Jose <-> LA route (CA 152 - I5) are exactly 115 miles apart, making me think they are located taking into account the range of the 60kWh pack.

Larry Chanin said:

The attached chart is based on data that I extracted from a Model S's owner log of Supercharging data that he collected during a journey to multiple Superchargers. This information was posted on the official Tesla Motors forum, but please don't ask me to find it, its impossible to find anything there.

View attachment 14153

Larry

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I think I see the problem now. In the 5th post in this thread:

Thanks for the link. From the spreadsheet, it looks like the average rate of charge was around 2.6 miles/hour. That's quite a bit slower than the maximum claimed. Still, being able to "top off" 80 miles in a 30 minute break is pretty impressive.

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Turns out (s)he made a mistake here and I didn't check the math. Should be 2.6 miles/minute, not hour.

dennis said:

The superchargers along the San Jose <>- LA route (CA 152 - I5) are exactly 115 miles apart, making me think they are located taking into account the range of the 60kWh pack.

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Yes, the distances between the California Superchargers are not spaced 200 miles apart.

I obtained the following mileages from Google Maps are based on the exact addresses of the Supercharger locations.


Folsom to Gilroy ...................................................169 miles

Gilroy to Harris ....................................................112 miles

Harris to Tejon .....................................................116 miles

Tejon to LA ........................................................... 91 miles

LA to Barstow .......................................................121miles


However, the distance between the Delaware and Connecticut Superchargers is about 200 miles apart. Personally I believe Tesla is not done with the Northeast section of the network and I expect another station between these two.

Larry

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aviators99 said:

Turns out (s)he made a mistake here and I didn't check the math. Should be 2.6 miles/minute, not hour.

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Having access to the actual Supercharger data I never really believed that it took 2 hours to gain 6 miles, but I am in favor of ramping back the rate after a certain period of time if necessary to regulate the behavior of selfish Model S owners. In other words, I thought we were debating in the hypothetical. You seemed to be making the case that you would remained parked there regardless of how low the charging rate happened to be.

Larry

Larry Chanin said:

Yes, the distances between the California Superchargers are not spaced 200 miles apart.

I obtained the following mileages from Google Maps are based on the exact addresses of the Supercharger locations.


Folsom to Gilroy ...................................................169 miles

Gilroy to Harris ....................................................112 miles

Harris to Tejon .....................................................116 miles

Tejon to LA ........................................................... 91 miles

LA to Barstow .......................................................121miles


However, the distance between the Delaware and Connecticut Superchargers is about 200 miles apart. Personally I believe Tesla is not done with the Northeast section of the network and I expect another station between these two.

Larry

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Having access to the actual Supercharger data I never really believed that it took 2 hours to gain 6 miles, but I am in favor of ramping back the rate after a certain period of time if necessary to regulate the behavior of selfish Model S owners. In other words, I thought we were debating in the hypothetical. You seemed to be making the case that you would remained parked there regardless of how low the charging rate happened to be.

Larry

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Tesla has some very smart people working for them, if they tell the public that 30 mins is all you need to get to the next charger, then just be smart enough to listen.

Yes your rate of charge depended on SOC levels. But if you arrive at 10% or 70% it doesn't matter, park for 30 mins and you'll have enough to get to the next supercharger. Who cares if you only get 50 miles when arriving with 70% charge, you will make it.

Now these really smart people at Tesla just have to figure out based of topography and typical traffic flows, where to place the charger so everyone with 30 min charge can reach the next one. Maybe it's hilly and the next one is 90 miles away, maybe it's flat and the next one is 150 miles away. Either way it's easyer for tesla to figure this out then for the driver, so they pay people for the job of doing the math.

Larry Chanin said:

Yes, the distances between the California Superchargers are not spaced 200 miles apart.

I obtained the following mileages from Google Maps are based on the exact addresses of the Supercharger locations.


Folsom to Gilroy ...................................................169 miles

Gilroy to Harris ....................................................112 miles

Harris to Tejon .....................................................116 miles

Tejon to LA ........................................................... 91 miles

LA to Barstow .......................................................121miles


However, the distance between the Delaware and Connecticut Superchargers is about 200 miles apart. Personally I believe Tesla is not done with the Northeast section of the network and I expect another station between these two.

Larry

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Having access to the actual Supercharger data I never really believed that it took 2 hours to gain 6 miles, but I am in favor of ramping back the rate after a certain period of time if necessary to regulate the behavior of selfish Model S owners. In other words, I thought we were debating in the hypothetical. You seemed to be making the case that you would remained parked there regardless of how low the charging rate happened to be.

Larry

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No, it was totally hypothetical, and just to prove a point (that was based on an incorrect post by someone upthread). If the rate was actually what was stated by the OP, I would find someone's 110v outlet and go there instead of the SC. I'm also in favor of ramping back the the rate, especially since it will protect our batteries (but not to 2.6mi/hr).