-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
Tesla, TSLA & the Investment World: the Perpetual Investors' Roundtable
- Thread starter AudubonB
- Start date
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Then they won't be very competitive. This won't draw customers to their convenience stores in EVs, which would be the goal.
I think that topping off the tank, whether with fuel or electrons, will always generate marginal profit compared to what they make on items sold in the store. This is a recipe BP is intimately familiar with.
In the long run I hope to see them building new, EV-only stations. This would herald the ICEy glaciers sliding off into history, and BP would remain relevant in the new age of electric mobility.
It's okay to dream here, isn't it?
This is common, most people have a hard time comprehending the disruptive impact autonomy will have on the world. To be short, you are thinking too small.
FSD isn't just about robotic taxis, its about TaaS (Transportation as a Service). People using robotaxis for ALL mobility, not just what we today think of as "taxis". The economics of robotaxis coupled with EV's and smartphone apps will enable most people to use RT's full time rather than own a car themselves, because eventually it will be cheaper for the consumer to do so.
Doesn't matter if you just use the RT to commute to work every day, or use the RT to travel cross country, financially it should one day be cheaper to do so rather than own and drive your own car. And sure some of us old coots who grew up owning cars will never make the shift, but you can bet the young will do it instantly if its cheaper and more convenient.
Lots of math has been done on this by lots of analysts and its nearly inevitable once autonomy is solved thanks to the EV. The economics of it virtually guarantee it.
Now whether Tesla is the one to corner this massive new market first is unknown, but seeing how great FSD v12.3 is and how fast its now improving, coupled with the RT being revealed in three months and entering production next year, well.....
I guess this is what I disagree with, at least in America. You can easily live in Asia/Europe without a car and public transport is fast/cheap/efficient, but I suppose that's why we have different mindsets/posts here. I simply don't think people are going to get rid of cars anytime soon in America. I also don't buy young people will neither once they hit 30+ or have kids/family.
A lot of articles were also done on suburbs dying too, but they didn't and are still the most desired housing option in a lot of areas I've seen. We'll see of course how this plays out.
Car's aren't as expensive as people here make it out to be (home insurance in flood/fire areas is far worst). TaaS is too expensive for long distance drives. Thanks for sharing though since at least it tells me what people "think" will happen even though I disagree with it.
Yes, but there has always been the wave effect in Europe as cars were loaded onto ships in Shanghai first half of the quarter to get delivered later in the same quarter - reduced both CN and EU numbers. This was smoothed-out somewhat in the second half of 2023, but not totally
This makes it a little hard to predict at this point even though the trend looks down
If they charge too much, they won’t get any business and they’ll lose money until they adjust to market conditions. No one is obligated to charge there.
Robotaxis likely only make sense in dense urban areas where car ownership is already lower, they make less sense the further you move from dense urban into suburbia much less semi-rural and beyond.
People have been talking about stuff like ridesharing eliminating the need for car ownership more broadly and it hasn’t happened, Uber etc were supposed to do that years ago.
Then we can start asking how to squeeze huge profits out of a service that’s supposed to be so much cheaper than car ownership.
Maybe we should ask Troy how deliveries are shaping up for Q2
Yeah, I don't think a lot of CPOs have gotten that message. (For example, EA charges ridiculous prices at most of their sites. They charge $0.56/kWh in the same parking lot that Tesla charges owners $0.19/kWh. Not too far away Tesla charges non-owner/subscribers $0.22-0.36/kWh. The closest EVgo station charges $0.37-0.50/kWh.)
I suspect that Tesla charging reasonable rates is the only thing keeping the CPOs from gouging customers even more.
Then they won't be very competitive. This won't draw customers to their convenience stores in EVs, which would be the goal.
I think that topping off the tank, whether with fuel or electrons, will always generate marginal profit compared to what they make on items sold in the store. This is a recipe BP is intimately familiar with.
In the long run I hope to see them building new, EV-only stations. This would herald the ICEy glaciers sliding off into history, and BP would remain relevant in the new age of electric mobility.
It's okay to dream here, isn't it?
Peanut money for them to keep selling gasoline.
Buy and suffocate the newly emerging tech. Has been done forever.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Is EA trying to get customers into their store? No, they are not.
This is the difference with BP. They have a store beside the charger where profits are made. EA doesn't.
Leaving aside the stigma of an oil-giant buyer like BP, does anyone have any reasoned thoughts on what the current price of the Supercharger business line should be?
By "price," I truly mean price and not value. We're all familiar with the intangible benefits of the Supercharger network and we can debate that ad nauseam.
When NACS adoption and Tesla supercharger access were announced last year, the stock saw a huge rally so obviously the market thinks Tesla's giant charging market-share has some value. Tesla can't monetize all that gain, but I wonder if they could get an inflated price. It might be a good alternative to other sources of capital and also simplify Tesla's overall operations.
I'm guessing we don't have sufficient granular data to really price this business, but wondering if anyone has a model that takes a stab.
As a start, last year, Morgan Stanley put an NPV of ~$20 billion on the global supercharging business, but that included building the superchargers as well. Presumably, Tesla wouldn't sell the manufacturing piece, but perhaps?
By "price," I truly mean price and not value. We're all familiar with the intangible benefits of the Supercharger network and we can debate that ad nauseam.
When NACS adoption and Tesla supercharger access were announced last year, the stock saw a huge rally so obviously the market thinks Tesla's giant charging market-share has some value. Tesla can't monetize all that gain, but I wonder if they could get an inflated price. It might be a good alternative to other sources of capital and also simplify Tesla's overall operations.
I'm guessing we don't have sufficient granular data to really price this business, but wondering if anyone has a model that takes a stab.
As a start, last year, Morgan Stanley put an NPV of ~$20 billion on the global supercharging business, but that included building the superchargers as well. Presumably, Tesla wouldn't sell the manufacturing piece, but perhaps?
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
This doesn't add up. Why would BP put chargers at their stations then charge more than an EV can get at the charger down the street? They would lose twice (charger and store customer). Any use would be dependent upon unwary customers using the charger only because they were going to the store anyway.
I don't think being overcharged for electrons at the gas station will motivate many to sell their EV and replace it with ICE.
I don't see how this strategy you describe will suffocate the new tech.
They can only suffocate it if they have a monopoly on it and no one can provide competition. I don’t see a scenario where Tesla is selling the Supercharger IP and not having any sites of their own at all - do you?
Well, we don't really know that at this point. bp Pulse hasn't really deployed many chargers yet, but if they are really trying to snap up sites that Tesla abandons, there isn't going to be room for a convivence store.
The closest bp Pulse station charges $0.48/kWh. Still too much even at one of their gas stations.
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Maybe they are going all Mary Barra and trying to make it look like they are environmentally semi-conscious?
Last edited:
seems as though the trolls are winning
I have been reflecting and think this thread is better than one limiting the posters, there will always be users with questionable intentions. I would rather just scroll passed these and keep the thread as is. I will just not reply (or thumbs down) any posts I feel are in bad faith. Criticism of Tesla and Elon obviously should be allowed unless it becomes repetitive or without foundation.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
TBF so does Model Y.
You Don't Need A Full-Size Pickup Truck, You Need a Cowboy Costume
The full-size pickup truck has become America's best-selling vehicle by a country mile. But most Silverado, Ram, and F-Series buyers would be better served with a cheaper means of role-playing.
www.thedrive.com
Also Elon-
Tesla breaks ground on its futuristic diner with drive-in theater and Supercharger
Tesla has broken ground on the site of its planned futuristic diner with a drive-in theater and Supercharger station. Yes,...
electrek.co
2daMoon
Mostly Harmless
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
