Tesla requires 60A Disconnect switch w/charger?

[ai4px]

What happens when the charging cord is no longer needed, will people still call it the charger? WiTricity's wireless charging option will be available for Tesla vehicles in select locations in the US starting in late 2022. We can expect wireless charging to be widely available by 2023.

WiTricity Wireless Vehicle Charging

I work as a process control engineer in the paper industry. We use inductive heating to distort a calendering roll to control the thickness of the sheet of paper we're making. These heaters are 94% efficient. It is not uncommon to have 150 6kw heaters across a 30ft width. We are very interested in power efficiency. If there was another product that was 96% eff, we'd be all over it. All the major players (ABB, Valmet, Honeywell) all plateau at 94%.

All of that said... The inductive heaters transfer energy to a steel "dummy load". If we wanted to recover that energy back into electricity, in theory the best we could do is another 94% efficiency. So 0.94 x 0.94 is 88%. As slick as wireless charging sounds, why on earth would you take the largest energy using device in your home and make it cost 12% more to run?


There is a guy west of Seattle who is working on an automatic connecting method for EVs. He's already done a magnetically attached charge connector for his Nissan Leaf and his wife can nail the +/- 2" left right tolerance to get it to connect every single time. He uses the same thing on his M3, but it requires some surgery you don't want to do... so he's working on something that uses the charge port that is better than the tesla snake.

All in all... if you ask my wife how long it takes to charge her car, she'll say 15 seconds. Plug it in, pet the dog and walk inside.

 

[jcanoe]

People will do whatever is easiest. An EV is the four wheel equivalent of the cell phone. My cell phone charges wirelessly and also can be charged using a plug. I rarely use the plug to charge my cell phone.

 

[OliverM3]

People will do whatever is easiest. An EV is the four wheel equivalent of the cell phone. My cell phone charges wirelessly and also can be charged using a plug. I rarely use the plug to charge my cell phone.

For me I guess it depends on loss, battery degradation and charge rate. I don't mind charging my phone because I throw it out every couple years so don't mind that it negatively affects the battery or charging loss. My electric is bad enough at .17c/Kw with no off peak savings I wouldn't like any loss in efficiency. Now when they start doing those charging roads everywhere that would be great.

 

[jcanoe]

EV adoption will advance once consumers have the option of wireless charging for their electric vehicle at home and at public charging locations. If you arrive at your destination burdened with things that needs to be carried and small children not having to plug in to charge is a win.

 

[DanDi58]

EV adoption will advance once consumers have the option of wireless charging for their electric vehicle at home and at public charging locations. If you arrive at your destination burdened with things that needs to be carried and small children not having to plug in to charge is a win.

I don't know, I think it's more a question of just being able to pull up to the charger, plug in and go, like the SC network. Versus having to pull up, open an app or mess around with a screen on the charge unit (maybe in the rain), wait for it to authorize, then plug in and see if it starts. Then maybe have to start over at another station. Sure, wireless charging would be nice but I don't see that being a 'thing' in enough places to really make a difference for years.

 

[appleguru]

If your locality has adopted the 2017 revision of the National Electrical Code (NEC) all new installations of a charging circuit with receptacle (any type) that will be used to charge a plug-in vehicle or an EV must be protected via a GFCI. For higher amperage circuits such as the NEMA 14-50 the only available option is a GFCI circuit breaker which can cost over $100.

Not quite accurate. The GFCI requirement was added to the *2020* edition (which only a handful of states have adopted so far). The 2017 code only requires GFCI for single phase circuits under 150V and under 50A (so this 240V 14-50 on a 50A breaker would not require GFCI under the 2017 code, but would under 2020)

See 625.54

 

[iluvmacs]

Not quite accurate. The GFCI requirement was added to the *2020* edition (which only a handful of states have adopted so far). The 2017 code only requires GFCI for single phase circuits under 150V and under 50A (so this 240V 14-50 on a 50A breaker would not require GFCI under the 2017 code, but would under 2020)

See 625.54

You've misread/misinterpreted 625.54 in 2017. It says under 150V to ground, which any typical 240V service in the US meets (it is 120V to ground). Yes, a 14-50 needs GFCI unless you've done something very unusual.

 

[ai4px]

Not quite accurate. The GFCI requirement was added to the *2020* edition (which only a handful of states have adopted so far). The 2017 code only requires GFCI for single phase circuits under 150V and under 50A (so this 240V 14-50 on a 50A breaker would not require GFCI under the 2017 code, but would under 2020)

See 625.54

The code says 150v to ground.... since the USA is split phase, that means 240v circuits.

 

[appleguru]

The code says 150v to ground.... since the USA is split phase, that means 240v circuits.

I stand corrected. The 2017 code was not very clear (in part I suspect why they changed it);

625.54 Ground-Fault Circuit-Interrupter Protection for Personnel. All single-phase receptacles installed tor the connection of electric vehicle charging that are rated 150 volts to ground or less, and 50 amperes or less shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.

 

[roblab]

I am so happy that I learned how to screw wire into a switch or outlet, and how to drill holes in wall studs. I do all of my simple electrical work, which means I bought my own 220 volt outlet, ran 30' of 6/3 with ground, and connected it to a 50 amp circuit breaker. When I needed to, I cut a path through the sheetrock, and patched that when I was done. I did my whole job for zero cost of labor and a few dollars for wire and an outlet, plus a new circuit breaker. Now I see that electricians are out to gouge us. Well, not me, because I stand behind them every minute and watch what they do, and ask questions as they go. Every job I do I learn more, and it translates into money in my pocket.

Being an electrician begs to gouge just from the nature of their work and the stupidity of their customers. Same as any other profession. So do your homework and ask intelligent questions and offer to help.

 

[GBMaryland]

Its was $1500 to install a 100A sub-panel in my garage on the other side of the house, 60A breaker, Tesla charger, using copper wire, drilling through the pad to get to the lower level, and run conduit the entire way.

Three man crew was here all day… and they worked for it.

I had already bought the charger.

 

[iluvmacs]

I am so happy that I learned how to screw wire into a switch or outlet, and how to drill holes in wall studs. I do all of my simple electrical work, which means I bought my own 220 volt outlet, ran 30' of 6/3 with ground, and connected it to a 50 amp circuit breaker. When I needed to, I cut a path through the sheetrock, and patched that when I was done. I did my whole job for zero cost of labor and a few dollars for wire and an outlet, plus a new circuit breaker. Now I see that electricians are out to gouge us. Well, not me, because I stand behind them every minute and watch what they do, and ask questions as they go. Every job I do I learn more, and it translates into money in my pocket.

Being an electrician begs to gouge just from the nature of their work and the stupidity of their customers. Same as any other profession. So do your homework and ask intelligent questions and offer to help.

Ah, so you'd run a business and do licensed, insured electrical work for people and charge significantly less money?

 

[qdeathstar]

Being an electrician begs to gouge just from the nature of their work and the stupidity of their customers.

Then do it bro. There is literally nothing stopping you.



You could say the same of a surgeon, lawyer, or mother Theresa…

 

[Roman_O]

Can we all agree that we should NOT be calling the EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment) a charger? Any discussion can get confusing when we don't use the correct moniker.

Yes, it's a bit of a PIA, but necessary.

My local Tesla electrician and Permit guy both called Tesla Wall Connecter as EVSE.
Why it should be not call like this and how the "Tesla Wall Connecter" should be named ?

 

[Roman_O]

Prior to one of the NEC updates a few years ago, a disconnect was required. They added an exemption for EV charging equipment. Depending on what version of the NEC your jurisdiction follows, this could be related.

HOWEVER... a 60A non-fusible disconnect costs $10 at most. It's what's used for every home air conditioner unit. Tell him to sharpen his pencil on that one. A lot.

Sorry, but NO.
A 60A non-fusible disconnect switch which costs a few dollars has a maximum 10 HP rating, Which means 7.46 Kw or 7.460 / 230 = 32.4 Amp. continuous use.

 

[Roman_O]

86-304 Disconnecting means
(1) A separate disconnecting means for shall be provided for each installation of electric vehicle supply equipment rated at 60 A or more, or more than 150 volts-to-ground.
(2) The disconnecting means required in Subrule (1) shall be
(a) on the supply side of the point of connection of the electric vehicle supply equipment;
(b) located withing sight of and accessible to the electric vehicle supply equipment, and;
(c) capable of being locked in the open position.

Yes, Tesla Wall Connecter uses only 48 Amp, but 230V, so it is "more than 150 volts-to-ground".
And, according to your quote, the disconnect switch is required.

 

[davewill]

Yes, Tesla Wall Connecter uses only 48 Amp, but 230V, so it is "more than 150 volts-to-ground".
And, according to your quote, the disconnect switch is required.

Congrats for answering 4 year old posts in a thread last replied to 2 years ago, and getting your facts wrong. A 240v circuit is made up of two 120v phases, which makes it less than 150v to ground.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

It's 240v single phase here and we are intending to have a 32A breaker. All good?

 

[davewill]

It's 240v single phase here and we are intending to have a 32A breaker. All good?

Everything in this thread is specific to North America. Your question doesn't even make sense. All good for what? Anyway, you should probably ask in the regional forum for your area.

 

[QtownTaxiGreg]

As far as I know electrons are electrons whether they are in US or anywhere else.

We are limited to 32A of 240v on a single phase circuit. As I recall that's 7.6 kW out of the grid. I just wondered if there could be any problem or special considerations to be taken in setting it up.