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Israel/Hamas conflict
- Thread starter Buckminster
- Start date
This makes me so sad and mad.
You posted something that is easily refutable from sources that are blatantly biased, then posted a third source that directly contradicted your first post and now you throw up your hands and blame it all on the decline of professional journalism.
This is directly off-topic and I don’t want to get into a personal pissing contest, but if any poster can’t determine what sources are reliable, or engage in an open conversation about determining the actual facts, then they are just amplifying noise and contributing to the greater problems (propaganda and the decline of the news media industry) that are at the root of most of today’s conflicts (consider the Russians’ belief in Putin’s lies and how Hamas’s and Iran’s propaganda are fueling the current crises in the ME)
Edit: If you review the posts *in this forum* you will see that others already provided video evidence that the Ahli hospital damage was caused by an errant missile fired from within Gaza, not the Israelis. Your last two sentences should be a warning to everyone that they have a responsibility to stop that dynamic, not use it as an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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navguy12
Active Member
Yuval Noah Harari backs critique of leftist ‘indifference’ to Hamas atrocities
Exclusive: Sapiens author among 90 signatories to statement of dismay at ‘extreme moral insensitivity’
www.theguardian.com
X marks the spot for misinformation. Apparently paying $8/month to be "verified" is worth its weight in lies.
Meet the ‘New Elites’ Who Control Twitter's Israel-Hamas News
Meet the ‘New Elites’ Who Control Twitter's Israel-Hamas News
Like in Desert Storm. US usually likes to get their equipment in position and plans for victory firmly established before their initial main attack.
Might do various probing incursions to determine the strength and capabilities of their enemy, but will want to have all their command, control and intelligence systems ready prior to sending in masses of troops.
Might do various probing incursions to determine the strength and capabilities of their enemy, but will want to have all their command, control and intelligence systems ready prior to sending in masses of troops.
Both are missing in detail:
This is why centrists need to have a voice.
This is why centrists need to have a voice.
But not the Senate bill that has funding for Ukraine as well.
You can support an ally without sending them BILLIONS of dollars you don't even have.
BitJam
Active Member
The majority of US aid being sent to Ukraine is in the form of used and often obsolete military equipment. And yes, the US has massive stockpiles of this stuff. In terms of international aid, this is the bargain of a century. Reducing aid to Ukraine would hurt the US economy. This is the goal of many of the people asking for aid to be reduced. They want to damage our economy and blame the trouble this causes on their political rival. Others are rooting for authoritarianism and dictatorships to take over the world including in the US.
Saying we cannot afford to send aid to Ukraine makes about as much sense as being economical by eating all of your seed corn.
[Sorry for the digression about Ukraine. I will refute outlandish anti-American implications even when they are posted in the wrong forum.]
I believe the evidence shows the missile was fired from within Gaza. I despise when anyone rushes to judgment without waiting for all the facts to come in. Having spent a reasonable amount of time all over Israel and the Palestinian controlled areas I formed an opinion of who I think is more on the side of right and wrong. I've been pretty open about the fact that I tend to favor the Israeli position.
Not saying they don't do anything wrong but there has been a double standard where the IDF must typically fight with one hand tied behind their back. the NYT never even initially questioned that 500 people were killed in the hospital attack. Seemed like a hell of a body count and would have take a massive bomb to do this kind of damage.
Made me think of this attack in Mariupol, Ukraine, last year. Russian deliberately attacked the school even though the word children was written right outside in Russian (дети), deti in English.
I still stand by my comments that journalism sucks for the most part and is agenda driven. Having worked and lived in Russia and Ukraine, I saw first hand the propaganda mill that journalism was there. Those that actually tried to do real reporting met an untimely end.
I still recall in Gaza info that was quickly buried about UN personnel covering up the fact that Palestinians were keeping arms in or near schools, mosques, hospitals, etc. Articles like the following seem to get memory holed. Heaven forbid if Israel strikes a mosque even if it was a weapons cache. There would be no end to the hand wringing and castigation of the IDF.
Here is something interesting to read in general, written 14 years ago. SSDD currently.
Rockets from Gaza
This 31-page report documents attacks by Hamas and other Palestinian armed groups since November 2008 that killed three Israeli civilians and seriously injured dozens of others, damaged property and forced residents to leave their homes. The rockets unlawfully struck populated areas up to 40...
I learned a long time ago that if someone tells me they want to kill me, I believe them. So when Hamas says they want to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, I believe them and I am sure the Israelis do as well. There will never be peace there with Hamas and their charter. If most of the Palestinians support Hamas, with their charter call for the destruction of Israel, then they are complicit. I think I read somewhere that 60-70% of Gazans support Hamas. Don't know if that is accurate, I thought it might be more based on the Palestinians I met.
Unless Israel wipes out Hamas, this will continue for years. Even if they do, Iran will prop up some other group. If it does look like Hamas is going to be wiped out, I am sure Iran will launch even more attacks through their proxy. They stand to lose a lot of influence if Hamas is eliminated.
Great news:
Has there been any indication that Palestinians will give up Hamas locations etc?
Has there been any indication that Palestinians will give up Hamas locations etc?
Benjamin Netanyahu, 2019, meeting with Likud party’s Knesset members:
“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas". "This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”
Netanyahu is a terrible leader for Israel, in my opinion. But stitching together quotes out of context isn't an honest way to present what he said. It's pretty clear that he was saying that supporting Hamas is bad and counterproductive to establishing a Palestinian state. That second quote isn't tied to the first, and is conveying the desire to keep Hamas' influence from spreading to the West Bank.
