ZeApelido
Active Member
Here's my observations from a decent amount of reading about the history of this conflict
Phase 1: Immigration
1) Ottoman Empire allowed Jews to buy up land in Palestine starting around 1900. Baron Rothschild took advantage.
2) Jews emigrated in increasing numbers decade after decade, and Palestine being "owned" by the British was imminent, they set forth a goal for a Jewish State in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.
3) Arab / Jew conflicts increased but were sporadic as Jews kept legally buying more land. Then the Holocaust happened and immigration accelerated.
4) By 1948, Jewish immigrants were > 30% of the population and I believe owned around 50% of the land. Legally. Arabs in Palestine have some legitimate gripes, but let's not pretend like Jewish settlers illegally entered the area.
5) Up to this point, Arabs rejected mutliple proposals for a two state solution. Earlier ones had a much smaller area allocated for a Jewish state.
Phase 2: Wars
1) Israel declared independence and multiple Arab countries attacked. Israel won. Not surprisingly, they took more land (you know that's common in war right?). Arabs fleed Israeli land (and some were pushed out, what % is unclear). Jews were pushed out of / fleed basically every other Arab country.
2) The West Bank is absorbed by Jordan, and Gaza by Egypt. But they do not fully integrate them (because that would signal acceptance of the Israel state). Nor are they made into their own country. This could have happened at any time for 18 years. Meanwhile Israel goes from nothing into a functioning state.
Keep this in mind again - Israel develops much more rapidly than the Palestinian territories from 1948 to 1966 - and you can't blame Israel for that.
3) Arab aggression in 1966 leads to another war. Israel was the initial attacker but the details seem to indicate lots of Arab intimdation and blockading of shipping. Arabs lose again. So now they lose more land, and Israel now takes Gaza and West Bank. In theory, it's Israeli land now.
4) Another attack by Arabs in the Yom Kippur War in 1973, Arabs lose for the 3rd time. I don't recall if Israel takes more land after this, but they do give the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt in an agreement for peace. (E.g. Israel was willing to trade "land for peace").
Phase 3: Occupation and Failed Peace
1) I admittedly don't know much about those initial decades of occupation. I do know many attempts have been made to help Palestinians, e.g. with work permits to work in Israel, but that has all gotten worse over time.
2) Palestinians still want all the land back. They do not want to setlle for a two state solution and reject multiple peace talks as they feel they are unrealistic. I believe Israel has also rejected at least one proposal they felt was unrealistic. However proposals went as far as giving Palestine back almost all of the occupied land (that Israel owns), but that was not good enough.
3) Attacks on Israel continue. Jewish settlements into what was Palestinian land pre 1966 definitely makes tensions worse. This creates a negative feedback cycle - more Israeli troops and control of and inside the borders to reduce retaliation, which means more violence and death of Palestinians, which itself creates more retaliation.
4) It's 75 years after the 1948 war and Israel's declaration of statehood. Palestinians believe they deserve Right of Return. One key motto in their protests is "From River to Sea". We're not even talking about Hamas' doctrine to eliminate Jews, or any outrageous thing Iran says.
Summary
This is not hyperbole: There is ample evidence that Palestinians still want Jews removed from modern day Israeli land. Honestly, nothing else matters as long as this is so. You can't "free Palestine" when the logical expectation is they will just keep attacking or try to get into Israeli land.
I mean, common sense, this is fundamentally not going to happen. It's laughable if you read all this history. If people legitimately cared about the Palestinian quality of life, they would urge them to accept a two state solution, and none of this Right of Return nonsense.
Westerners protesting along with Palestinians holding these signs like "from river to sea" are just tools of the Palestinian agenda. You are enabling them to keep up hateful rhetoric. They are literally pushing for eradification of Israel.
You can think westerns aren't being anti-semitic by supporting the Palestinian cause. But the Palestinian "cause" is very clearly anti-semitic as defined by their stated goals and what "peace" they are willing to accept. You'll excuse my Jewish friends who might be taking aback by calls to be eliminated.
Phase 1: Immigration
1) Ottoman Empire allowed Jews to buy up land in Palestine starting around 1900. Baron Rothschild took advantage.
2) Jews emigrated in increasing numbers decade after decade, and Palestine being "owned" by the British was imminent, they set forth a goal for a Jewish State in the 1917 Balfour Declaration.
3) Arab / Jew conflicts increased but were sporadic as Jews kept legally buying more land. Then the Holocaust happened and immigration accelerated.
4) By 1948, Jewish immigrants were > 30% of the population and I believe owned around 50% of the land. Legally. Arabs in Palestine have some legitimate gripes, but let's not pretend like Jewish settlers illegally entered the area.
5) Up to this point, Arabs rejected mutliple proposals for a two state solution. Earlier ones had a much smaller area allocated for a Jewish state.
Phase 2: Wars
1) Israel declared independence and multiple Arab countries attacked. Israel won. Not surprisingly, they took more land (you know that's common in war right?). Arabs fleed Israeli land (and some were pushed out, what % is unclear). Jews were pushed out of / fleed basically every other Arab country.
2) The West Bank is absorbed by Jordan, and Gaza by Egypt. But they do not fully integrate them (because that would signal acceptance of the Israel state). Nor are they made into their own country. This could have happened at any time for 18 years. Meanwhile Israel goes from nothing into a functioning state.
Keep this in mind again - Israel develops much more rapidly than the Palestinian territories from 1948 to 1966 - and you can't blame Israel for that.
3) Arab aggression in 1966 leads to another war. Israel was the initial attacker but the details seem to indicate lots of Arab intimdation and blockading of shipping. Arabs lose again. So now they lose more land, and Israel now takes Gaza and West Bank. In theory, it's Israeli land now.
4) Another attack by Arabs in the Yom Kippur War in 1973, Arabs lose for the 3rd time. I don't recall if Israel takes more land after this, but they do give the Sinai Peninsula back to Egypt in an agreement for peace. (E.g. Israel was willing to trade "land for peace").
Phase 3: Occupation and Failed Peace
1) I admittedly don't know much about those initial decades of occupation. I do know many attempts have been made to help Palestinians, e.g. with work permits to work in Israel, but that has all gotten worse over time.
2) Palestinians still want all the land back. They do not want to setlle for a two state solution and reject multiple peace talks as they feel they are unrealistic. I believe Israel has also rejected at least one proposal they felt was unrealistic. However proposals went as far as giving Palestine back almost all of the occupied land (that Israel owns), but that was not good enough.
3) Attacks on Israel continue. Jewish settlements into what was Palestinian land pre 1966 definitely makes tensions worse. This creates a negative feedback cycle - more Israeli troops and control of and inside the borders to reduce retaliation, which means more violence and death of Palestinians, which itself creates more retaliation.
4) It's 75 years after the 1948 war and Israel's declaration of statehood. Palestinians believe they deserve Right of Return. One key motto in their protests is "From River to Sea". We're not even talking about Hamas' doctrine to eliminate Jews, or any outrageous thing Iran says.
Summary
This is not hyperbole: There is ample evidence that Palestinians still want Jews removed from modern day Israeli land. Honestly, nothing else matters as long as this is so. You can't "free Palestine" when the logical expectation is they will just keep attacking or try to get into Israeli land.
I mean, common sense, this is fundamentally not going to happen. It's laughable if you read all this history. If people legitimately cared about the Palestinian quality of life, they would urge them to accept a two state solution, and none of this Right of Return nonsense.
Westerners protesting along with Palestinians holding these signs like "from river to sea" are just tools of the Palestinian agenda. You are enabling them to keep up hateful rhetoric. They are literally pushing for eradification of Israel.
You can think westerns aren't being anti-semitic by supporting the Palestinian cause. But the Palestinian "cause" is very clearly anti-semitic as defined by their stated goals and what "peace" they are willing to accept. You'll excuse my Jewish friends who might be taking aback by calls to be eliminated.