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I read the linked thread at Whirlpool from the linked point forward. The main poster seems to ignore the possibility that Tesla will release a Powerwall with built-in 3-phase inverter. All of the problems he described will vanish if they do that. Also, if they have a true 3-phase gateway and the gateway can maintain the sync across 3 single phase Powerwalls, then they can still do the frequency shifting overall to curtail the solar when the batteries are full. The only problem that would remain is unequal loads on the 3 phases draining one of the Powerwalls before the others.There's a lengthy dissertation about the 3-phase gateway here .
Apparently the prior version did not have enough of the foresight I loudly talked about here for years: the ability to have fast reaction to grid conditions. The new version has that ability designed into it. What those specs are I do not know; I bet that both the old and the new version could be used for reacting to grid conditions within their respective specs for use cases that work in their respective specs, and that the new version is still not the top end fast reactor that they could do. However, usually these things get designed to be useful, so hopefully they did that, and have a target capability in mind that they will actually be used for. I applaud them improving it and learning more, at the very least, and hopefully bring more grid services online sooner.
Ugh. Reading that, it shows that Tesla continues to be unenlightened. They could just have each PowerWall inverter pick a phase bus and output match needed electrons in the right format for that bus (phase) as needed and dispatched by the Backup Gateway, i.e., load distribution. This would require at least 3 PW2's in which case they would each just select one bus, and any more than 3 would allow the additional PW2's to roam different phases according to need. (If all the PW2's were thusly connected to all 3 phases and able to roam, then this would allow a PW2 failure to not get in the way of 3 phase operation, provided sufficient PW2's remained (and the gateway can detect and route around failures).) Obviously, this would only allow step-change amounts of power available in 5KW (7KW non-continuous) increments, but in my opinion, that's a good enough of a compromise to fully deliver all possible uses of existing designs and equipment than Tesla's current (typically corporate unenlightened) disabled design. This opens up the possibility for competing backup gateway manufacturers as far as I'm concerned. I'm not sure if the phase roaming capability was built into the PW2's or not, so that may also need to be external, but by the time you get that far into design, you might as well source your own batteries and make your own entire system at that point.still timing out, but here is what I found
The article is written completely from the Australian perspective. So, you have to assume everything they said was based on their grid, which is 240V L-N and 415V L-L 3-phase. Most likely they're talking about 3 phase service with only one phase backed up and operable when the grid is down. The poster at Whirlpool linked above pointed out the obvious problem with backing up only one phase when your solar is 3 phase and must deliver equal power on all three phases. You can't use solar to extend your battery runtime when you're in that situation.Apparently the prior version did not have enough of the foresight I loudly talked about here for years: the ability to have fast reaction to grid conditions. The new version has that ability designed into it. What those specs are I do not know; I bet that both the old and the new version could be used for reacting to grid conditions within their respective specs for use cases that work in their respective specs, and that the new version is still not the top end fast reactor that they could do. However, usually these things get designed to be useful, so hopefully they did that, and have a target capability in mind that they will actually be used for. I applaud them improving it and learning more, at the very least, and hopefully bring more grid services online sooner.
The reporter had this paragraph that I assume is inaccurate, but if accurate, implies and says many downgrades compared to the prior model single phase system I have:
The new version also includes a range of new features, including fast data, improved connectivity, and the ability to work with three phase homes that will enable up to 10 Powerwalls to be connected on-grid and up to 4 Powerwalls for single phase back-up during an outage.
For instance, my older gateway allows 9 PowerWall 2's, fully usable in backup or self-generation mode, in a single phase grid location (split 240V with neutral in the middle). The above paragraph incorrectly states only 4 powerwalls will work for single phase backup; I'm not sure what they mean by that (if it was just wrong, or an omission of conditions).
Agreed. And, thus, why I'm complaining about the PW2's not being distributed in such a way they cover all 3 phases. Maybe I misread. Similar although not identical issues come up in other 3 phase countries, even including some smaller 3 phase USA installations (although that's rare talk, and they may forego underwriting paperwork costs for such small market segments).The article is written completely from the Australian perspective. So, you have to assume everything they said was based on their grid, which is 240V L-N and 415V L-L 3-phase. Most likely they're talking about 3 phase service with only one phase backed up and operable when the grid is down. The poster at Whirlpool linked above pointed out the obvious problem with backing up only one phase when your solar is 3 phase and must deliver equal power on all three phases. You can't use solar to extend your battery runtime when you're in that situation.
My feeling is that Tesla eventually needs to release a Powerwall with built-in 3-phase inverter. Assuming the same 5kW continuous 7.5kW peak, it would have 10A 3-phase connection. 10 Powerwalls would be 100A on 3 phases and the 4 Powerwalls on single phase would be 120A. The only open question is whether a single SKU could cover the whole range of 120V to 240V L-N voltages on 3-phase.Agreed. And, thus, why I'm complaining about the PW2's not being distributed in such a way they cover all 3 phases. Maybe I misread. Similar although not identical issues come up in other 3 phase countries, even including some smaller 3 phase USA installations (although that's rare talk, and they may forego underwriting paperwork costs for such small market segments).
I had Tesla Energy come out back in late November, and I asked them about this. All the guy knew is that instead of the old "grey" box, they are now branding the gateway in their own shell that may have room for more than one Neurio. He had no knowledge if any of the guts were improved.Anybody with a recent (post Oct-2018) PowerWall 2 installation in the USA seeing this new Backup Energy Gateway 2 hardware? I'm trying to understand why they raised prices recently without at least making commensurate hardware updates.
This is for those NOT in Australia.
specsheet: https://www.awsolar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Backup_Gateway_2_Datasheet_EN.pdf
Anybody with a recent (post Oct-2018) PowerWall 2 installation in the USA seeing this new Backup Energy Gateway 2 hardware? I'm trying to understand why they raised prices recently without at least making commensurate hardware updates.
This is for those NOT in Australia.
specsheet: https://www.awsolar.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/Backup_Gateway_2_Datasheet_EN.pdf